Fighters that never would have been 'Champion'

Discussion in 'General Boxing Discussion' started by steve_dave, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. steve_dave

    steve_dave Hard As Fuck

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    I've been doing some thinking this morning...

    Who are some fighters that you think of as legit current or former champions - guys who you think of as more than just paper champions - who in a world of one title per weight class, would never have won the belt?

    It's crazy to think that in a world like that, Miguel Cotto would have merely been a very good contender - never a world champ at any weight.
     
  2. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    Interesting.

    Superficially, its easy to draw up lists of fighters who never would have been the man under those circumstances.

    However, consider then the strange circumstances of Billy Backus, Hugo Corro, Zab Judah, for instance, who aspired to the status of "Undisputed" in the "traditional" divisions of Welterweight, Middleweight and Welterweight respectively.

    In Judahs case, he had been badly found out at 140, yet became a legitimate Undisputed champion at 147.

    Corro and Backus were just plain lucky.

    I think that guys like Oleg Maskaev, Ricky Hatton, Fernando Vargas, Cotto, Stevie Johnston etc would never have aspired to #1 in a 1 title division.
     
  3. steve_dave

    steve_dave Hard As Fuck

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    What would stop a guy like Hatton from getting a shot at Tszyu in a 1 title division? Too many tough contenders in the way?
     
  4. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    Take a guy like Hatton, look at his lifestyle, the cuts issue he had early in his career. Without proper management, he could have easily had a defeat long before he had been manoevured into title contention. Hatton was very well managed, never given anything he couldn't do, and generally allowed to reach his full potential. Once he had reached his full potential, he was genuine, legitimate world-class, at 140.

    Take Oleg Maskaev, who is now remembered as a former HW champion.

    When he stopped Rahman for the first time , he had to go and do it again with Derrick Jefferson. Then he ran into Kirk Johnson. Suppose the fight he had with Rahman II was just another contender fight, the guy would have been so wasted and so exhausted by the time he got around to fighting a Valuev or a Klitschko, he might well have had nothing left at all, to mention nothing of the fact that they may well have been harder opponents to crack than Rahman.

    Yet, if Maskaev had retired after the loss to Kirk Johnson, he would have retired with KO victory over a FUTURE Undisp HW Champ on his ledger.

    The best example I can think of this is Jesus Pimentel, who, by the time he got around to fighting Olivares, he had been 10 years a professional fighter. He missed out on a title fight when Eder Jofre couldn't make the weight and his manager pulled him out. He really had nothing left by the time he ran into Olivares.

    When there is only 1 champion, everything has to be perfect- the talent, the management, the timing, the good fortune, everything. There are very few fighters who get them all right. Pimentel had the talent, had shrewd management but he had shitty luck- the shitty luck that Jofres people played hard-ball, the shitty luck that by the time his next shot came around, he was past his best and facing perhaps the greatest bantamweight of all time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  5. TLC

    TLC "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Ruiz.
     
  6. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    I would disagree. With the heavyweights, anything can happen. Buster Douglas couldn't win a share of the title against Tucker, but went on to KO Tyson for all the marbles.
     
  7. steve_dave

    steve_dave Hard As Fuck

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    Irish, not quite what I mean. I'm talking about real results here.
     
  8. steve_dave

    steve_dave Hard As Fuck

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    I do and always have looked at Ruiz as a former paper champ.
     
  9. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    I don't.
     
  10. TLC

    TLC "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Cmon Dude..Lummox would've killed Ruiz in the ring.
     
  11. steve_dave

    steve_dave Hard As Fuck

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    Why is that?
     
  12. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    Lewis vacated rather than fight him. Its not enough to say "Lewis didn't want to bother with him"- Ruiz would have fought him, Ruiz would have fought the recognized man, and was prepared to do so. Cynically we could say that he had no choice and was happier to fight Holyfield. All we do KNOW is that he was prepared to fight Lewis and Lewis wasn't prepared to fight him- for whatever reasons.

    Its not like Ruiz stalled and waited for something to come his way.

    Secondly, Ruiz at least turned in 1 performance vs Holyfield that could be called a win. He also floored Holyfield, something which Lewis, despite capable of it, failed to do.

    He, Ruiz, then went on to fight and beat Golota, Rahman, and probaly beat Valuev in Germany.

    The guy did try. He did want to fight people. The fact that he had a shit style and he wasn't liked doesn't make him a paper champ.

    He wanted to fight Lewis in 2000 and Lewis was not interested. So the title fragments.

    Could Ruiz have won a title in any other era? It would have been nigh-on impossible but he had a big right hand, which, apparently, was all Galento, Braddock and the like needed to have the stellar Louis on the mat
     
  13. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    Would have, could have, should have.....Lewis didn't fight him. I would put a lot of it down to Ruiz being Lewis former sparring partner. The entire "Johnny Louise" thing from Lewis smacked of a guy who really wasn't up for it. Lewis knew that an unedified spectacle awaited him if he fought Ruiz. Another Mavrovic.
     

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