A great read for MMA history guys

OK, let me give the benefit of the doubt and let's say the UFC adopted SOME of Pride's entrance ideas. You have to admit that is a fairly weak connection between the UFC and 80's pro wrestling in Japan.

Personally, and I've watched the UFC since it's infancy, don't think the UFC entrances have ever been like Pride.

 

Hey you never said it had to be a "strong" connection

 

While we're talking about influences, I watched the Cotto-Mayorga weigh-in live on HBO. What a freaking circus. You talk about taking a page out of the WWE.

And I'm not saying this to slam boxing, but I think the UFC does a fantastic job of making the UFC PPV weigh-ins a cool event. I've attend 2. And the last one, UFC 109 in Vegas before the Super Bowl, was worth waiting to be at.

 

I'm talking about the fighting. Not the entrances.

 

Influence, man. Do you understand what influence can mean?

If many of the top fighters of the last decade and more have fought in Pride, like they have, do you not understand how that can lead to an influence over modern day cage fighting?

I'm willing to play ball. I'll give you a chance on this one. Try to understand.

 

Dude, the entire board is still waiting on you to give one example of how 80's pro wrestling in Japan has influenced the "FIGHTING" of modern MMA..

I would be happy with just 2 examples. And would probably let you off the hook with only 1 example if it's a good one.

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

Sure. The Shamrock brothers. There's two.

 

Ummm. Those are the names of two fighters. What did they change in the UFC that more resembled 80's pro wrestling in Japan?

This should be interesting considering Ken and Frank both gained interest in MMA watching the first UFC. And have talked about watching Royce Gracie and that influencing their Pancrase fighting.

 

Yeah, Ken had a pretty good seat for UFC 1, too. ::

If you don't think the Shamrock brothers influenced modern day MMA, then we're so far apart on this issue that there's really no point in going back and fourth.

 

Don't change the context of your stance. It's 80's pro wrestling in Japan. Show me how either Shamrock brother brought something from 80's pro wrestling in Japan to modern MMA.

Just one thing. Give me one piece of FIGHTING exclusive to 80's pro wrestling in Japan that was given to modern MMA.

 

My stance? I said, and I quote -

You don't think Pride has had any influence on cage fighting as it is today? This isn't about something specific that is used that was used in Japanese pro wrestling. It's about Pride, that was spawned from Japanese pro wrestling, having been influential is making cage fighting what it is today. Why is this complicated?

Still, we can move on when you explain this gem. ::


This should be interesting considering Ken and Frank both gained interest in MMA watching the first UFC. And have talked about watching Royce Gracie and that influencing their Pancrase fighting.

:: ::

 

What's inaccurate about that statement? Are you saying Frank wasn't there because he didn't fight?

What am I missing?

 

You said Ken gained interest in MMA by watching the first UFC. He fought in the first UFC.

 

No, I said Frank AND Ken gained interest watching the first UFC.

Your making a point about me saying "watching" when Ken also fought....

I get it, when you get backed in a corner by making ridiculous claims you have to resort to semantics to change the focus.

OK, I will recant my comment and change it to:

Frank and Ken gained interest in MMA by watching and participating (Ken) in the first UFC.

Now back to the debate. Exactly what from 80's pro wrestling in Japan do we see in modern MMA?

I'll be waiting for you to: 1)Either change your stance again or 2) Point out a spelling or grammar error in my post.

Who are you TLC?

 

Just admit it man, until you looked it up you had no idea that Ken Shamrock fought in the first UFC, or that he fought Gracie that night. It's cool.

I already answered your question in my previous post. I'll copy and paste -

My stance? I said, and I quote -

You don't think Pride has had any influence on cage fighting as it is today? This isn't about something specific that is used that was used in Japanese pro wrestling. It's about Pride, that was spawned from Japanese pro wrestling, having been influential is making cage fighting what it is today. Why is this complicated?

 

Seriously? I've talked about the first UFC event on here before. There is no mystery about who fought and who won. You can focus on semantics if it makes you feel better.

Back to the topic:

Again, nice try to change the focus, but you also said, and I quote:

"...modern MMA is ALL directly linked to Pro Wrestling in Japan during the 80's."

Show me that link between modern MMA, which is primarily the UFC, and 80's pro wrestling in Japan?

I've been waiting since you made that comment. Please try to focus and not swing the thread in another direction.

 

What? Didn't I say that months ago? I remember taking it back. Obviously, that isn't true. I was probably trash talking.

What I'm saying right now - and it's true - is that modern MMA has roots in pro wrestling. It's fact.

I have been incredibly clear throughout this entire thread.

 

So then your quote from the very first page of this thread is a bit of a lie.

For clarification, you didn't get 'torn a new asshole for saying MMA had roots inn pro wrestling. You got corrected when you said "modern MMA is all directly linked to 80's pro wrestling in Japan".

This is a classic case of Mayorga (when trash talking makes people look stupid).

 

Cool. So we agree that modern MMA has roots in pro wrestling?

 

Absolutely not. My definition of roots is far more involved than just wrestlers or former wrestlers participating in modern MMA.

I will say it now, as I have several times, modern MMA is clearly the UFC (even moreso with the purchase of SF). And the UFC is almost 100% rooted in Vale Tudo not pro wrestling.

I am curious to your definition of roots? What about the UFC is rooted in Pro Wrestling. In fact, when I watch a modern MMA fight, what about it looks, feels, smells or even resembles pro wrestling?

 

Cool. I'm talking about MMA though. If you don't think Pride has influenced MMA as it is today, I don't know what to tell you.

I don't give a flying fuck about production and all that other shit. The game itself has roots all over the place - one of them is Japan, where it spawned from pro wrestling.

Pride, either the or among the most popular organizations for many years, has had influence on the game and the way it's played.

 

Did you read or watch any of the stuff that jarhead posted?

 

So the Shamrock brothers haven't been influential to the UFC?

 

Roots is where something started. It can evolve to a point where you don't see it anymore. And I'm NOT saying that it all goes back to pro wrestling. But some of it does. That's factual. :dunno: