A great read for MMA history guys

I think this is a disagreement over use of the words 'roots' and 'spawned'...

The UFC is not rooted in Pro Wrestling. It has been influenced by former pro wrestlers without a doubt. But that doesn't mean it's rooted in pro wrestling anymore than it's rooted in boxing or BJJ.

 

Guys, you know I never generally agree with SD. Seriously. But the thought of modern MMA having roots from pro wrestling is there. Modern MMA is made up from several different areas, Brazil with the BJJ, Russia with Sambo, Netherlands with the Kickboxing, United States with boxing and wrestling, and yes Japan with old Japanese Pro Wrestling and many other martial arts to go with it. MMA is so broad, to say the roots don't exist is kind of silly. Hell you could also say it has roots from Ancient Greece if you wanted to make the pancration comparison.

GF, Pride of course influenced modern MMA. It carried MMA for many years, while the UFC was down in the dumps. Pride forced the UFC to change, taking most of their best fighters. We ALL know everything I just said is true. It isn't opinions, its history. Now when SD starts his trash talking about all MMA comes from pro wrestling, no, we all know he's full of crap. But his statement that modern mma has roots in pro wrestling is correct.

 

Modern MMA is basically the UFC. Let's be honest. And the UFC is not rooted in Pro Wrestling. It has been influenced by pro wrestlers that have participated but it's history, it's lineage, cannot be traced back to Pro Wrestling unless there is something I missing.

If the contention is that Japanese wrestlers founded Pride and Pancrase and those organizations spawned MMA fighters that would eventually fight in the UFC and have an impact. That is a fair statement.

 

I guess we just disagree. I think we are just looking at this completely different. Baseball didn't influence MMA because it isn't a combat sport. I am not saying that just because a fighter came from Pride it means shit. I am saying that Pride, the organization had an influence on modern MMA because it carried the sport for half a decade. That is influence. I would also say that Pride taking many of the UFC's stars in that time forced the UFC to really start recruiting out of the US and Brazil. Hey, I guess you just don't see it. No big deal. Have a great day, man.

 

I think myself and you and Trplsec just think totally differently on the term "roots" and "influence"

 

Well it has absolutely nothing to do with the roots of the UFC. That is for sure.

Again, I am stretching to see the connection.

 

okay, so roots are the beginning. So you don't think in the beginning of MMA there was Japanese pro wrestling?


Influence. I will agree that when you watch the UFC today, there is practically no resemblence of Pride. In fact, I think the UFC does everything to stomp out any connection of Pride they can. But Pride did influence MMA. They brought MMA to a "show". The UFC fell horrbily on its face between UFC 5 and 10. No one was watching it. (of course besides us:hammert:) Pride took the baton and ran with it, building interest and viewership that in turn helped a struggling UFC. They pushed the UFC to change. If you don't think this is influence. We can just stop. Because I do. I feel like you want me to describe something we see in the Octagon today that is a direct result of Pride. I can't. But I can tell you that Zuffa has gone on record saying they researched Pride and how well they were doing in Japan and it was influential in them deciding to buy the UFC.

 

I didn't say it was the beginning of all MMA. But it was definitely at the beginning of MMA in Japan.

And honestly, the part that I highlighted makes no sense to me. Like I said, it may not have influenced what you see in the ring, but the fact it helped even encourage the Zuffa's to buy the UFC is enormously influential in itself.

 

I'm speechless.

 

The last part is where we disagree. I say Pride carrying MMA does mean it has influence. And that's perfectly reasonable.

 

You have to ask yourself... without the existence of Pride, would MMA exist in the exact same way it does today?

 

That's just where we should probably leave it. We're just so far apart here.

 

What are you talking about? There were many UFC fans that were Pride fans as well. I was one of them. Pride had a huge American audience. Not understanding you here bud.

Dana and Zuffa went and purchased it and repackaged it? Repackaged what, Pride??

 

Fuck off. It's all in front of you, clear as day.

 

Whoa! Control yourself Andrew. Only civilized human brings belong in this forum. :Rubio:

 

:: It's just a fundamental disagreement on what influence means. What more is there to say?

 

I answered several questions throughout this thread. I don't want to get into every single fighter that may or may not have picked something up from fighting in Pride an brought it to the UFC. Or getting into every fighter that became famous because of Pride an came over to the UFC, making big events that changed the UFC. Pride is a part of MMA. A huge part of it's history. After the UFC, no organization has been more influential.

 

Or the fact that arguably the greatest fighter ever made his name in Pride. Or the fact that the reigning light heavyweight champion made his name is Pride.