A great read for MMA history guys

OK, help me then. What part of this isn't true?





Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) competitions were introduced in the United States with the first Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) in 1993.[11] The sport gained international exposure and widespread publicity in United States in 1993, when Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fighter Royce Gracie handily won the first Ultimate Fighting Championship tournament, subduing three challengers in a total of just five minutes,[12] sparking a revolution in the martial arts.[13]

Meanwhile Japan had its Shooto also called Vale Tudo in 1985 where fighter Rickson Gracie won the tournaments in 1994 and 1995, which continued interest in the sport resulting in the creation of the Pride Fighting Championships in 1997, where again Rickson participated and won.[14]

The movement that led to the creation of the UFC and Pride was rooted in two interconnected subcultures. First were the vale tudo events in Brazil, followed by the Japanese shoot wrestling shows. Vale tudo began in the 1920s with the "Gracie challenge" issued by Carlos Gracie and Hélio Gracie and upheld later on by descendants of the Gracie family.[15] In Japan in the 1970s, a series of mixed martial arts matches were hosted by Antonio Inoki, a former star of New Japan Pro Wrestling;[16] this inspired the shoot-style movement in Japanese professional wrestling, which eventually led to the formation of the first mixed martial arts organizations, such as Shooto, which was formed in 1985. The International Sport Combat Federation (ISCF) was created in May 1999 as the worlds first "MMA" Sanctioning body. This ushered in a new era of Mixed Martial Arts where it is once again recognized as a true sport worldwide. This was aided by certified officials and well developed rules that were built up from the ISCF's sister organization for kickboxing, the International Kickboxing Federation's (IKF) long developed system.

 

My comments here are based on nothing but research. I just disagree simply on what influence means. There's no question that Pride has roots in Japanese pro wrestling. You'd be silly to argue that.

Instead, you're trying to say the Pride hasn't had any influence in a sport it was such a major part of for about 10 years. I can't get behind that. You can ask the same questions all you want, you can say I haven't answered questions all you want.

The fact is, some of the greatest fighters in MMA history did the bulk of their work in Pride. Many would argue that Fedor is the greatest of them all, and his platform in his prime was Pride.

If Pride never existed, the history of the game is altered. Things would have changed. How much? That's anyone guess. But in a sport with such a short history as we know it, it simply isn't logical to argue that Pride had no influence on MMA today.

 

That one is from Wiki. So Shooto wasn't made by a group of pro wrestlers?

 

OK, cool. So forget Pride. Maybe it would have been something else. It would have been in Japan though, right? Would you say Japan has been influential in MMA as we know it today?

 

The article says those Inoki fights led to the creation of Shooto. Which put on the Vale Tude '94 and '95 tournaments. Which were very popular, and led to the creation of Pride.

I'm very interesting in talking about Pancrase. But you probably don't think Ken Shamrock has had any influence on MMA either, do you?

 

Missed one.

 

Cool, that's why I asked you to point out what was wrong in the article. The other stuff is true though, right?

 

Well because that's where it was popular. If there was going to be a huge organization in Brazil it would have happened, don't you think?

Japan is where the money was for these guys, right?

 

Sure. It's just the general entry for Mixed Martial Arts. If you can find some better stuff I'd love to read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_martial_arts

 

As I said, better info would be great. I imagine most references will have the same gist, but I'm all ears.

 

Safe to say that if it wasn't Pride, it still would have been in Japan though, no? Pretty likely I'd say.

 

Also, Jarheads post that starts this thread explains the evolution in Japan.

Meanwhile in Japan, pro-wrestling had been taking a turn towards the real throughout the 1980's. Karl Gotch was a huge influence on this. Under the leadership of pro-wrestlers like Akira Maeda and Masakatsu Funaki Japanese pro-wrestling began to emphasize actual submission holds. In the early 1990's Funaki formed Pancrase to be a real "shoot" organization. It wasn't quite MMA at first -- they only allowed open hand strikes and kicks standing and no strikes on the ground. Here's a representative match from the old pancrase featuring Bas Rutten and Funaki (it's from 1996 so it's a little later on than the real early ones but I can't find Ken Shamrock vs Funaki or Suzuki anywhere online).

 

Then at UFC one, the two worlds collided. With Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie meeting in a classic match up. Watch how Shamrock's submission attempts ignore position and Royce takes advantage by constantly working for dominant position. The gi choke Royces uses to win would never happen in modern MMA.

 

He explains the evolution from Pro Wrestling, to shoot matches, to allowing striking to MMA, etc... It's all there.

 

You don't see that I bolded part of the post?

It talks about how the Brazillian style and the Japanese style met at UFC 1 with Shamrock vs. Gracie.

Still hope you can post some better information than the stuff I'm going on.

 

Do you think Ken Shamrock has been influential to MMA and the UFC, Godfather?

 

Yep, I'm aware of that. Don't see what has to do with anything? A move to shoot fighting by some wouldn't change all.