Which champions were virtually talentless?

That's all anyone ever mentions, beating Morales in sparring ::

Honestly, who cares. Morales has looked crap in sparring before, and even guys like Spadafora have got the better of far superior fighters like Floyd in sparring.

Maybe he was better early in his career, who knows, but every pro fight I've seen of his, he looks sloppy and amateurish, not particularly agile or fast, with his main assets being power and ferocity.

Again, not UNtalented, but not exactly a beacon of talent either compared to the boxing elite.

 

Cool. He always struck me as a raw talent with very little finish.

 

I guess he did have raw talent, because for as raw and amateurish as he was, he threw a borderline world class guy like DeMarco a pretty fierce beating. He also barely noticed the monstrous gash on his head.

He was talented like a wild animal kind of talented.

I would have picked him over most guys at 135, but overall I struggle to call him "really talented".

Valero Vs Rios would have been an awesome fight. Can you imagine?

 

I think we pretty much agree on Valero.

Very talented from the perspective that he won title fights with really nothing but talent, because he wasn't very well schooled.

Valero/Rios would be been fun as hell. Still, I'd take Valero by devastating KO. You?

 

Valero was a real favourite of the people over at Mexboxing.com.

Since he murdered his wife, they don't talk about him anymore.

 

Valero was an incredible talent; even though he had diminished over the years, due seemingly to his stubborness and indiscipline, the way he plain obliterated decent divisional contenders like pitalua and de marco regardless was awesome. His punch accuracy and control of distance and range was impressive.

 

Word.

 

ps...he would have absolutely destroyed Brandon Rios, Rios would look like Margarito after Pac-Man if he managed to finish on his feet :nono:

 

Salaco, you're overrating Valero to an absurd degree. In recent years the only fight he looked good in was the DeMarco fight, which was impressive I agree.

He was powerful, ferocious, and fearless, like an animal, but an incredible talent? Nah not even close, incredible talent is the Martinez's, Donaires and Pacquiaos of the world.

 

I think we do too, I guess it's just that I reserve "really talented" to proper elite talents like Martinez etc.

I do agree with you though that he won fights with talent, because he sure as fuck had no traditional boxing skill etc.

As far as Valero Vs Rios, I'm honestly not sure. Both are very fierce fighters, with good stamina, and seem fairly tough.

Valero has more power but Rios is by far the more skilled, polished fighter, and also more proven in the sense we've seen him overcome adversity.

To me it's a pick em fight. I could see Valero overwhelming Rios and catching him with too many shots, but I could also see Rios coming forward, smothering Valero, and beating him to the punch with more compact, fast, accurate shots.

 

Nah, I'd see Rios as too slow of hand and too open not to be hurt by Valero, at least to the point where he would limit his offence as de marco did.

Valero certainly overcame adversity during his first title fire-fight. Additionally, almost as impressive was his casual dismissal of Antonio Pitalua who is not easily disposed of, he's a very tough scrappy fighter but Valero didn't break sweat.

What I would have loved to have seen would be Corrales vs Valero, Corrales would have had enough handspeed to catch an offensive Valero with a great counter, and I'm not sure Valero was sturdy enough of chin to take too many, and he wasn't defensively inclined to play it safe.

 

Well the Pacquiao Vs Plasterito comparison is crazy for a couple of reasons. First, Pacquiao is in another stratosphere of ability to Valero, and second Rios is much better than the version of Plasterito without his magic wraps.

Don't underrate Rios, watch the Acosta fight again. Rios actually has pretty good handspeed, and decent footwork. He is in another league to the likes of DeMarco.

Acosta is known to have fast hands, and Rios more or less matched him for handspeed. His punches are faster than Valero's, that's for sure, and shorter/crisper.

Valero's punches are incredibly telegraphed and of average speed. And whilst Rios IS pretty hittable, he's no more hittable than Valero was, who was also very open, and relied on reactions to avoid punches.

Against most of the scrubs he was facing it worked fine along with overwhelming them with ferocity and power, but how do you know how he would react with someone in his face, smothering him, and constantly hitting him with punches?

To be honest with you I don't find anything that impressive in the Pitalua fight. Pitalua is 40 years old, and when has he even faced a truly world class fighter?

I was far more impressed with the DeMarco performance.

I'd pick Chico over both these guys to be honest. He had obscene power at 130/135. Valero and Rios are just too hittable to beat someone as powerful, accurate, and quick to pull the trigger as Corrales.

Do you remember we made a bet on Chico Vs Fruity? ::

 

I won't live that down, in fairness it was looking good for the first few rounds even though I was never convinced he could bounce around like that for 12 rounds.

I really disagree with you about Rios, no way he's in another league to de marco, I think you are vastly overrating him. In fact, thats a fight I would like to see - I would only marginally favor Rios.

 

You serious? You'd only marginally favour Rios?

We'll see I guess.

And the thing is, I'm being very objective about Rios, because after seeing him on Manny's 24/7 shows, he seems like an utter cock, I hated him.

I was rooting for Acosta to give him a beatdown, and I actually favoured Acosta.

Rios proved me wrong though. I'm impressed for 2 reasons. He did much better than I expected him to, and he overcame adversity, which is always a good trait in a fighter.

So in all honesty, I don't "like" Rios at all, but he can fight.

Honestly I think he'd give DeMarco a total beating just like Valero did. We'll see.

 

I'm not sold on Rios either

 

i'd pick rios to destroy demarco.


i think acosta would bash demarcos head in

 

word.

Valero-Pacquiao would have been the fight that dreams are made of....

 

Yeah, five or six years ago... before Pacquaio started mixing up his shots. But say back in 2005, I think it would have been a lot of fun.

 

Same here. I'd pick Rios to do AT LEAST what Valero did. Just beat him down.

And yeah, I'd pick Acosta to beat DeMarco with relative ease too.

 

Only if you hated Valero. He wouldn't have been competitive against Pacquiao.

 

Valero would have killed Rios. IMO

 

Agreed. Pac would have given him a savage beating, so yeah maybe it is what dreams are made of.

 

I have to admit, Valero impressed me in the Pitalua fight as well. Not so much because Pitalua is a world beater (as you correctly pointed out), but he's generally durable and boasts frightening one-punch power. The type of fight where if Valero was as bad as some suggest, he could've easily been laid out. Instead, he walked through him.

The Demarco performance was impressive as well. Again, if Valero was that limited, he could've easily been outboxed.

Haven't read the entire thread, but I'm guessing Valero's name came up as a suggestion for being talentless, which was most certainly not the case. I wasn't a fan of his, but he was better/more talented than often given credit for being, especially on here.

 

Jake:

I was there at that Pitalua fight, and as bad as I thought Valero was by viewing videos of him, in person he was far worse..literally comical.

The guy stood right in front of his opponent, hands down at his waist and he punched from his waist with both hands at the same time with his chin straight up in the air.

The little fella Pitalua was so scared of him; he crossed himself after the fight and then went to his knees and started praying before he walked halfway back to the dressing room.

I have never seen a guy so happy to be knocked out as he must have been thoroughly intimidated.

There are Golden Glovers here in Houston that could have beaten the guy..ringsidemike can attest to that fact as well.

 

Before his US suspension, Valero exhibited far more technique; after he moved to Japan and no longer had a trainer, he basically turned into a Ponce De Leon/Mayorga-ish fighter. Just looking to get guys out of there with wild shots.

That was Doug Fischer. He was high on Valero to the point where it was ridiculous. Thought Valero was better than a young Shane Mosley, etc etc. Fischer was always a tool. I recall having an argument with him because he thought Cotto and Margarito would both "run Floyd out of the ring."

Pac would've killed him.

 

I'm not sure how the topic started, but it got rolling by me objecting to him being called "really talented" or "incredibly talented".

I do agree he was talented, because let's face it, it wasn't boxing skill and finesse that won him his fights, it was raw, animalistic talent. I just cannot fathom calling someone like that "incredibly talented".

loadedgloves, I know, he seemed to look MARGINALLY better early in his career, but obviously we can only judge on the most recent form, and you're right, he did turn into a Mayorga esque fighter. Possibly even sloppier and more wild.

I also agree Fischer is a fucktard and Pac would have bludgeoned him.

 

:bears::bears::laugh11:

Fischer is the archetypal boxing-website guru. He knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. It was Fischer who pushed the notion that Wlad used poison on his gloves in Byrd-I.

Mighty-Mike Anchondo was another favourite over there, but after he lost, they just forgot all about him too.

I used to get emails from Fischers bum-chum, Steve Kim, asking me about how "Quitali Quitschko" was getting on. Kim is the guy who said that Sanders vs Vitali was such a poor fight that it would have barely made it onto the undercard of a Blue-Horizon affair.

I saw that interview Fischer did with Valero. He did everything bar suck the guys cock. He was just so delighted to be in the guys presence, real fan-boy fuckery, salivating like a retard at the ice-cream stall. This is when everybody knew that "El Inca" was a headcase and was prone to bouts of violence, usually against women and the like. They seemed to regard him as some sort of a Roberto Duran. Perhaps there was a hint of the Norman Mailers about it, the need to be seen in the company of a barely-restrained beast, as if some of the manliness would therefore rub off on Fischer.

Real low-brow, Yankee-Centric shit. They seem to think Broke-Ass California is the center of the universe.

 

There are two female flyweights here in Houston that could have beaten Valero; Marlen Esparza and Ashley Alvarado.

Esparza IMO is the best amateur in the country, while Alvarado will make it 3-0 with 3 KO's next week in El Paso.

Here is Alvarado's pro debut: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlqgasjbsPQ&feature=related

 

Did Fischer sign to fight Pac?:rock1: J/K

Fischer is indeed a spanner. He was one of the mugs who shrugged his shoulders and smiled when Don King managed to fuck Hasim Rahman over during the Kushner-HBO-Lewis-Rahman debacle of post-South Africa.

Ahhh....those were the days. When we had a brand new champ, and he's from........the USA. {and he is a dunski that is bought with duffel bags of notes and gets KO'd without making a successful defence}

 

Gotcha. I don't necessarily disagree that "incredibly talented" is a stretch, but it is a fact that he was a lot better before he was banned from fighting in the US and once his handlers opted to focus squarely on the 1st Round KO record (which didn't even last very long).