A great read for MMA history guys

And what from Japanese PRO wrestling did Ken Shamrock bring to the UFC?

Just curious.... I didn't see Ken using any fake slams or holds in the UFC.

 

If I remember, in the first UFC's, Ken's "discipline" was shoot wrestling. Not that this answers your question, but it does show he felt his "shoot wrestling" was significant.

 

Can you point out what isn't accurate here?



The origins of Shamrock's mixed martial arts career began in the Japanese pro wrestling organization Fujiwara Gumi. On October 4, 1992, at the Tokyo Dome, a legitimate match between "Wayne" (Shamrock's show title in Japan) Shamrock and kickboxing champion[4] Don Nayaka Nielsen took place. Shamrock took Nielsen down and submitted him with an arm lock in 45 seconds. The success of this match made young pro wrestlers Shamrock, Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki question what they had been told since entering into predetermined wrestling: that nobody would ever pay to see real matches.[4]

Shamrock, Funaki and Suzuki then founded a group of pro wrestlers and decided to pursue marketable legitimate matches. They formed a promotion called Pancrase, named by ’60s wrestling star Karl Gotch after the sport of Pankration in the ancient Olympics, which combined all different forms of fighting into one sport.[4] Using pro-wrestling rules – no closed fisted punching to the head (closed fisted punches were allowed to the body), breaks on the ropes, but fighting for real – Shamrock beat his friend and mentor, MMA legend Masakatsu Funaki by arm-triangle choke in the main event of the very first Pancrase show on September 21, 1993.[4] The show attracted a sell-out audience of 7,000.[4]

Shamrock, now an enormous star in Japan,[13] defeated world kickboxing champion and future UFC Heavyweight Champion Maurice Smith and Alex Cook in the Opening Round of the 16 man King of Pancrase Tournament and Masakatsu Funaki and Manabu Yamada in the Second Round to become the first King of Pancrase before crowds of 11,000 fans both nights at Tokyo’s Sumo Hall in December 1994.[4] He then defended his King of Pancrase title against Bas Rutten in 1995, submitting him with a kneebar. He lost the title in his next fight against Pancrase co-creator, Minoru Suzuki, in a match that has been rumored to have been predetermined.[14][14][15]

 

Yep. Although I think he called it "shoot fighting". Could be wrong though.

 

He got famous doing it once he became a pro wrestler though.

 

Seriously though, what's really the difference? One just combines kickboxing with shoot wrestling, right?

 

Shootfighting's use as a synonym for mixed martial arts had its genesis in the 1970s, when Karl Gotch taught a group of Japanese professional wrestlers catch wrestling techniques, called "hooking" or "shooting". In 1976, one of these pro-wrestlers, Antonio Inoki, hosted a series of mixed martial arts matches. This led to an increased interest in real and effective technique, and eventually led to the creation of shoot wrestling, with some shoot-style professional wrestling organizations hosting legitimate mixed martial arts bouts, called "shoots". In the 1990s the interest grew, and certain shoot-style organizations like Pancrase evolved into pure "shoot" organizations. The term "shootfighting" was frequently used to describe these events and styles.

The word "shootfighting" was however coined by Bart Vale, an American with a background in wrestling. He was the Japanese Professional Wrestling Fujiwara Gumi (PWFG, a Japanese shoot-style professional wrestling organization) champion for close to three years. Upon moving back to America, Bart Vale used the term "shootfighting" to describe his own hybrid fighting system, which was a combination of the shoot wrestling techniques he had learned in Japan, and his experience in American karate and kickboxing. He also founded the International Shootfighting Association to promote shootfighting as a combat sport.

 

Z! Thoughts on this thread so far?

 

Is this getting tiring to any of you yet?

 

What's your opinion, Z?

 

yeah, it got a bit old to me as well.

 

I think you're right about Shamrock. His roots are in Japanese pro wrestling, and that spawned some of the early MMA. I would say it's definitely had an influence on the sport in general. How much of an influence it had on the UFC specifically? Shamrock was a UFC Champion so it's definitely part of their history. The way the UFC is run was also influenced by none other than the WWE.

 

Yeah, until some good information from a solid source is posted, I'm done too.

Cheers fellows.

 

:rock:

 

Cheers Z.

As I bow out, Z, jarhead and Bob being on my side is enough. Godfather and Trplsec are both in this too deep to change their stance now. I understand.

Good night, and good luck.

 

Haha... Hmmm. I'm pretty sure I got you to recant your original statement:

I bowed out of this debate when you changed the context of your stance. First it was linked, then it was influenced, then it was rooted, then it was some what connected.. What next?

You can't figure out your own belief, so why should I debate it.

Funny actually. This is really a Petre-like spin from you.

I have no issue with the idea that modern MMA was influenced by former Japanese Pro Wrestlers. The degree of influence can be debated till the next century and no one will win the debate.

But the idea that the UFC is "Rooted" in Japanese Pro Wrestling is moronic, uninformed and really just plain stupid.

 

I'll ignore the other stuff since we've been over it, and over it, and over it.

So only Godfather is left. 5-1 so far, not bad.

 

Let's just put this to rest. Here is a connection directly from Japanese Pro Wrestling to the UFC.

We all know the UFC was created to showcase Gracie Jui Jitsu right? The creators of GJJ is Helio Gracie, who basically tweaked judo and created a form of martial arts designed to help smaller guys be able to defend themselves from larger stronger attackers. Helio learned from his older brother Carlson, who learned Judo from.....wait for it.....wait for it.....Japanes Pro Wrestler and Judoka Mitsuyo Maeda.

BOOM. Thread over.

 

Cool! Good stuff, Z. Didn't know that. Thanks for sharing.

 

Dude, this thread is over. 5-1. It's all good. You can keep going if you want, but I'm done.

 

Uh oh! You sure got me.

5-1. :bears: