Which champions were virtually talentless?

For what it is worth, as I see it, once fighters make it beyond preliminary status and into the rankings of the major bodies, there is no black and no white as far as talent is concerned, merely different shades of grey. None of them are truly perfect, none of them are truly talentless. There are very very few guys who were truly "talentless", ever, across 100 years of pro-boxing. I think Primo Carnera might be one of them. Some guys, like Ricky Frazier or Richie Melito might be regarded as talentless, as their position, in the rankings was acquired through fraud or incompetence.

Carnera, for instance, suffered from Giantism- his frame and muscular build were the result of a thyroid issue. He didn't have big parents or a brutal training regime. His "title-winning" effort involved a "KO" of Jack Sharkey, real name Joseph Paul Zukauskas, one of those killer-instinct-deficient Euros. Sharkey in fact had taken a dive. He made two "defences", one against some European scrub called Uzuduzcan or some shit, the other where he stood on the foot of the one-handed Tommy Loughran, the light-heavyweight champ. Loughran had broken his right hand as a child in an industrial mishap. Carnera won a decision over 15 rounds against a one-handed, one-footed man whom he outweighed by 84lbs.

Carnera was then bludgeoned and embarassed by Max "Last One Up Is A Sissy" Baer and Joe Louis, who between them floored him 13 times.

Truly this man was a talentless bum.

 

You're just being stupid Karl. Valero would not have lost to a woman in a million years. You are out of your mind dude.

 

When did you win that argument? :::dunno:

 

Carnera was throughout the first half of his career, I agree with you.

But; Primo became a pretty good boxer later on (training at Stillman's under Ray Arcel, Freddie Brown, and Charley Goldman) with a good jab and heavy right hand behind it, but never had much of a hook.

 

ointlaugh:

 

I guess he was too musclebound to develop the hook. The character of Toro Moreno in the movie "The Harder they Fall" was based on Carnera.

 

::

 

Required viewing in my home once a year.

My favorite Steiger role, played the cutthroat manager perfectly.

Jersey Joe and Maxie were excellent as well, Baer had the widest shoulders I ever saw.

 

Is this even the real Karl posting this shit?

 

They have both been added to Floyd's resume without having ever stepped foot in the ring with either of them.

 

You won't be posting your smiley face when Marlen wins the Gold Medal next year at the 2012 Olympics.

I thought you learned your lesson when Holyfield whipped Valuev, only this time no crooked officials are going to steal a fight as she should stop her foes.

 

I'm not saying she won't win Gold, bro. I'm just saying she wouldn't beat Valero, or any man that boxes in title fights for a living.

 

whatever, TYPIST

 

You need to stick to mixing concrete, wow..I am sure you just have TONS of brain work and thought process to accomplish your chosen career path, cdogg.:giggle:

 

Karl, you're my boy, but there isn't a woman alive that could beat a male fighter that has competed in the top 50 (probably being generous to the women with that number) of any weight class.

 

Is this true? I can't imagine a guy like Oscar who showed a concrete chin when fighting with no head gear and 8oz gloves to get "dropped hard" in sparring.

 

He knocked Oscar out at Big Bear.

 

Valero also busted up Oscar when he was brought in for sparring to prepare for Pacquiao.

 

Now that I don't doubt as Oscar had zero two months before that fight, he was far too light and very, very weak when I saw him in person.

Oscar probably could not have defeated many good fighters in that time period of his life.

 

Ashley is so good Andrew: she spars with Marcus Johnson, the super middleweight contender and future world champion.

Granted: Marcus is not going all out, but he is not just throwing marshmallows in there, either.

She is such a phenomenal talent that Freddie Roach wants to train her.

Her one drawback (and it is a major one) is her commitment level.

Sports Illustrated approached me last year after reading my report on her debut to do a feature on Ashley; but due to inconsistencies in her training and managerial situations, they called it off.

 

Cool man. How much does she weigh?

 

Flyweight.

Ringsidemike is her adviser and can give us more info on her, so I e-mailed him the link and we will get his views on her.

She is a stone cold killer in there.

 

You're just joking about her beating a male lightweight that has won title fights by KO though, right? ::

 

No argument there.

Obviously the weight drain played a very large factor, but even looking back it's still surprising how Manny completely dominated him for every second of every round.

Even if somebody told me that Oscar was drained as badly as he was before the fight and Manny would win, i still would have thought the effects would have taken longer to become apparent. I figured De La Hoya's jab alone would win him some early rounds.

 

I remember watching this at a casino in Detroit. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. For me, this was the most shocking fight since Jones-Tarver.

 

You sexist, chauvinistic degenerate. You brute. You cad. You utter blighter.

 

My actual pick for that fight was Oscar via Midget abuse. I thought Manny had no shot in hell. Shocker for sure.

 

Its what I love about boxing. Bulimic part-timers versus chemically enhanced midgets. The shock was massive, and boxing is better for it. Viva Vegas, Baby. 24/7 all the way.:wack::wack::wack:

 

You kind of nailed it. Fischer talking about boxing is like George Will talking about baseball. Dude comes off as a pansy/nerd, and maybe he's trying to compensate?

California has the biggest boxing market in the US and a lot of fighters are out of So Cal, so it's understandable that it's the center of their universe. Though the extent to which the So Cal journalists (Max is one of the worst offenders, but it's not just them - Fischer isn't even at Max anymore) get on the nuts of young Latino fighters out of LA is still pretty absurd.

, I hope this is a joke. Neither of them would last 30 seconds with Valero.

 

Yep, that's me. A real blighter. ::