As posted in the other thread When did oscar ever struggled against such elite fighter as kabary salem. When did Oscar ever needed to rob a Robbed Reid type of fighter. When oscar fought the kind of opposition that Joe fought, he looked way more spectacular and sensational than joe ever did
Calzaghe would have beaten Oscar. Its plain as day that as fighters go, he was a bigger, harder, smarter fighter. Its worth pointing out that Oscars "run" at 147 involved him beating Charpentier and Wilfredo Rivera. He arguably lost to Whittaker and Quartey. Both of them had him down. He then lost to Trinidad and Mosley and showed no ability to adapt versus Mosley. Years of sparring in California left Mosley well accustomed to that jab-left hook routine and Oscar showed no ability to improvise. Calzaghe was the sort of guy who change gears and tactics, mid-fight, never mind show the ability to improvise in time for a rematch. He showed a better chin and could come off the mat to stop guys. Oscar was also a cautious, more conservative sort of fighter, he had Quartey hurt, then walked into one himself, and never tried it again till the 12th, when he had to gamble and go for broke. Maybe, ironically, that sort of mentality made Oscar the better fighter, but that logic doesn't work for other "cautious, boring" fighters, so why should it work here. Oscar was probably greater, but in a fight with Joe Calzaghe he gets the shit kicked out of him, every day of the week. If people like Mosley and a coked up, ancient ass Whittaker gave him issues, then Joe Calzaghe beats him up. Greatness it seems, involves Jim Lampley screaming his balls off as you flail fruitlessly away at an immobile and spent opponent, whilst failing to KO them. Or winning a Gold Medal shortly after your mom died of Cancer. If this is greatness, then so be it, but it won't win you any fights against guys who are bigger and smarter. Calzaghe wouldn't have dropped a round to a guy like Greg Page, much less been KO'd by him in Sparring. People want to make a lot of noise about Karbary Salem, a guy who once killed a fighter in the ring. Fire away. As Calzaghe Sr said, during one of his more lucid moments, David Reid had a similar experience versus an Australian import called Kevin Kelley, where he won every round but was floored by an obdurate and resilient opponent. Reid, who went on to form part of Trinidads ascent to "greatness", wasn't slated half as much as Calzaghe. Its like saying who was the better Light-Heavyweight Champion, Calzaghe or Charles? Clearly it is Calzaghe. Now who was the better 175lbr? Clearly it was Charles. If you want to know more about how Joe Calzaghe was a better fighter, just ask yourself how he would have fared versus the people who beat Oscar. Floyd? Manny Pac? Trinidad? Mosley? All either too small, too slow, too predictable, too underpowered etc.
I'm not, but either way it can't be proven so it's a futile argument. De La Hoya fought the best around and tested himself against the best, Calzaghe fought utter junk for years. However whilst that clearly makes Oscar the greater fighter, in my opinion Calzaghe was the better fighter and harder to beat. I've always thought that.
People rag on Calzaghe fighting "past their best" or "old" opponents. If this is so pertinent, then why is Marciano so highly thought of? Not only was he "Great", but was also "Better" than todays "bums". Joe Calzaghe would have beaten Oscar De La Hoya in a fight, but, with his mom still being alive, his lacking an American passport and sold out shows vs Charpentier and Harold Volbrecht, I find it hard to deem Joe the "greater" of the pair.
I can only speak for myself, but I've been questioning Rocky Marciano's place in history since I've been posting on these forums.
Rocky Marciano is to boxing what the leaning tower of Pisa is to architecture. He's all wrong, but he's famous and a major attraction. Go figure.
I will say this - Irish mentioned Kabary Salem and that reminded me - the punch Salem landed on Calzaghe was about as hard and clean and well-timed as I have ever seen and Calzaghe got up and dominated the rest of the fight. i think Calzaghe has one of the best chins I have seen in a long time
Near impossible to do this, but I'll play along. Have we ever seen Oscar completely shut out an undefeated fighter the way Calzaghe did to Lacy? Even when oscar dominates (Gatti) he still gets bloodied. For me, personally, Calzaghe's skills impress me more...
The biggest knock for me against Oscar was how regimented and restricted his moves were. He was a converted Southpaw, lacking a proper right hand. It was all jab, hook, jab, hook from Oscar. His right was thrown but it was a nothing shot. Mayweather tried to change that for the Vargas fight but that was by 2002. Calzaghe threw all manner of shots- he had no set modus operandi. This made it easier for him to adapt and harder for opponents to figure him out. Kessler was a similarly regimented fighter, perhaps more-so than Oscar, and that stylistic deficiency cost him versus Calzaghe. Calzaghe could also set- and maintain- a withering pace- something Oscar was never able to do. Oscar would get tired. Calzaghe always looked like he might be able to stick in another 3 rounds, just for fun. For all the talk about Oscars superior resume, it should be borne in mind that its easy to rack up "big wins" when you hop from one division to the next. Oscar might have beaten MAG, but Kostya Tszyu beat him better. Oscar might have beaten Chavez, but those were exercises in economic charity- pay-days for both men. Indeed, the second Chavez fight came AFTER Julio had dropped a decision to a pet-food warehouse fork-lift-driver called Willy Wise. Even at that, the rematch ended with Chavez quitting. Oscar did not score a knockdown in either fight, IIRC.
Give me 135 lb Oscar P4P over 168 lb Calzaghe. Oscar would've beaten the dogshit out of the 135 lb equivalent of Jeff Lacy.
I say Calzaghe because he always seemed to improve as the fight went on. People talked shit about his style and called him a "slapper" and if that were true you would think world class fighters would easily figure him out and then outsmart him. But it was exactly the opposite. Calzaghe would usually become more accurate with his punches as the fight went on. He went down early to both Jones and Hopkins but got back up and won the fights. He dominated RJJ and the Hopkins fight was much closer but at the end, Calzaghe's style had Bernard throwing like five punches a round the last few rounds.
But Chavez was in BIG trouble with the Mexican government for owing back taxes when he signed to fight DLH II. The first fight, they both made $9 million. The second fight, DLH made $12 million and Chavez made $6 million attached with a note that said "Fwd to Government of Mexico."
As I was saying, it was an exercise in financial charity. It was a money event for both men, as much a glorified "I won't try if you won't try" type of thing. They both got paid, and that was about as significant as it got.
