Vargas via close competitive UD. Bigger and stronger and he would give Martinez problems with his own jab. Not to mention he would hammer Martinez to the body like no other.
Prime Winky got hit plenty. Guy had a solid chin and a tight guard, but he was never hard to find and was always in the pocket.
Martinez fights nothing like Wright. At least not the post-Vargas Wright. I don't think Vargas is bigger though.
Vargas liked to brawl & was a sucker for the left hook. I can easily see Martinez landing the same shot he did on PWill.
Martinez wouldn't land that KO shot on Williams again in a million tries guy is so fucking overrated leaping, holding and hitting, and a wild outside haymaker here and there, thats his game only in the wasteland of the current boxing scene can a guy like him be a P4P candidate
He probably would actually. And even if he didn't, he'd beat Williams again. Despite what you may think of him and his style, the guy is legit, he's one of the best fighters in the world. As much as I've always liked Nando, the current version of Martinez would beat any version of Vargas, he's simply a better fighter. I take it you didn't see the Ziruk fight? Wild haymakers? The guy outjabbed and picked apart a fighter considered to be a world class technical boxer.
he's legit by today's standards when most fighters are leaping forward and backward as their primary tactic... I'm not sold at all... I could name 10 middleweights from the last 25 years that I would bet the house on to beat him
Today's fighters are good, but have flaws like any generation. Infighting is lacking these days, and a lot of fighters fight "not to lose" rather than to win. That's a product of how significant a loss is in modern boxing. What middleweights would you pick to beat him then? He's better than anyone Bernard beat in his reign at middleweight, I know that much. And who are you talking about that leaps forwards and backwards as their primary tactic?
He landed plenty flush lefts on Williams in the first, too. He'd pretty much measured him. It's more surprising that Tall Paul stood up the first time than that he fell the second, it only took one to land on the button, it was gonna happen at some point.
but thats my point exactly, he landed plenty of lefts in the first fight and though he hurt Williams once, he was never in danger of being stopped. In the second fight the left landed as Williams was thrusting his head forward, a perfect coincidence... Martinez is not that big a hitter, he just landed the right shot at the right time with the right point of contact influenced by his opponent's movement... It's no different than Nino Benvenuti shockingly one-punching the normally durable Luis Rodriguez... a total fluke, it happens sometimes
are you serious? Leaping, overreacting to movement, these things are epidemic in pro fighters right now... have you watched Tim Bradley fight? Martinez? none of these guys can fight inside, it's jump forward with a power shot or three, and it's jump backwards... if neither option is available, hold your opponent and throw arm punches at his hips until the ref separates you... That is EXACTLY how Martinez fights... he's quick and he jabs pretty well, but he's got an amatuer style... I don't know how people aren't seeing how the nonsensical tactics of amateur boxing over the last 20 years are creating a generation of jumpy, skittish fighters The last 5 years or so in pro boxing is literally the first time in 20+ years of following it where I don't see a new fighter that is as good as the very best of the previous chunk of time before him... When Floyd, Marquez, Pacquiao started to become major, major stars from 1999-2005 or so, I said emphatically that they were as good as anyone before them, they would beat or compete with ANYONE EVER... Marquez, so skillfull, a great technician with a great fighter's heart... Mayweather, so smooth, so quick, arrogantly confident that he could dismantle anyone in front of him, loads of tools... Pac, a freak of nature, impossibly quick left hand, great footwork... I don't see how anyone can look at a fighter like Martinez and think he's that good Half the reason that guys like Marquez and Hopkins are still even competing is because they have (by today's standards) "old school" technique... neither one of them is anywhere near where they used to be, but because they have what used to be PROFESSIONAL skills, they are still good enough to give young fighters hell, because the young fighters don't have those skills Hopkins in his prime would absolutely break Martinez down and beat on him late, I would bet my house on it
I agree. Skiddish and jumpy is exactly how to describe so many of today's pros, having come up in the amateur ranks. It's not that fighters can't have success with this approach though. Take RJJ or Martinez as you pointed out. But for me, it's a watered-down version of boxing that isn't nearly as entertaining.
Martinez isn't THAT good. I don't think anybodies saying that. If they are, they're wrong. But that he isn't as good as the very best ever doesn't seem like a very good reason to constantly criticise him. And I think you know I agree completely with your comments on amateur boxing. i think we exchanged some PMS a while back when I moaned at tedious length about exactly that.:Thumbs: However I think there's an extent to which leap and hold has become more prevelant because it's very effective and very difficult to counteract. I'd say pro refs/commissions probably share fault with the amateur scoring system for not deducting/disqualifying for clinching.
Yeah, what Hut just said. Where am I or anyone else saying Martinez is THAT good? I think he's clearly the 3rd best fighter in the world right now, but there is still a clear gap in ability between him and Pacquiao. Martinez has a somewhat leapy style I guess, but it looks more RJJ esque than amateur. You realise Martinez has almost no amateur background at all right? He didn't step into a ring until his early 20's. Bradley? I don't see it. He's not a great infighter, but not awful either. He's a solid mid range fighter, compact and efficient. I don't see any leapiness or amateurishness.
I still think Martinez would beat Vargas, but agree with cdogg's post and he makes a pretty good case. RJJ's physical gifts put him in another realm from most fighters and make him a different animal in discussions like this.
Martinez seems to get a lot of play around here because he's P4P #3 right now My ultimate point is that P4P #3 "ain't what it used to be" And I remember the PMs, good stuff, my friend:clapagain:
