Boxrec Top 10 American Welterweights.

And less skill.

 

Where do you think Vitali lacks skill???

 

He's quite skillful at being tall, I'll give him that. Every other department? He fights like my mom.

 

Height is a physical characteristic, no different to the gradings on a ruler, or the 90 degree joint in carpenters square, or the length of a piece of lumber.

Where the cut is made in the wood, the accuracy of the measurement, the accuracy of the angle, how the tools are used.....this goes beyond the possession of the tools, and involves SKILL.

It is one thing to be tall. Not everybody knows how to fight tall.

Mike Grant was tall. Did he have the same composure, sense of distance, sense of timing and pace that either Golota or Vitali did?#

No.

Physical characteristics are just that. The effectiveness to which they are deployed is dependent on the degree of skill of the exponent.

Or the number of people playing basketball.

Take your pick.

 

Did he have the same amateur background as they did?

He still accomplished what he did, including beating Golota, despite it.

 

Oh!!!

And what do you think would have happened during Grants amateur career??

Would he have grown taller?

Or acquired SKILLS

So you think there is a relationship between the Klitschkos amateur background and their current success??

 

Of course.

But amateur background doesn't give you the natural physical abilities that Mayweather and Pacquiao possess.

And natural physical ability is part of the reason they're at the top of every pound for pound list.

 

Of course not.

An Amateur background gives you the time and space to develop skills around your pre-existing physical tools.

For Vitali, that would be height, reach, his angles and his distance/counter-punch game.

The man does have skills. I grow weary of this Maxboxing philosophy that all he is is tall. Carnera was tall. Valuev was tall. Buddy Baer was tall. Firpo was tall.

There is more to this business than height.

 

uuuhhhh YES...you think Pernell Whitaker was born with that defense? you think Cus could have trained Mike in a gym for 2-3 years no amateur fights and he would be successful pro as he became ?You think Muhammad Ali just walk into a ring and did what he did without years and years of amateur experience/learning...

 

We are largely in agreement. No need for the Super-Sized font, no need.

 

Once again, back to Maxboxing. ::

Becuase when you can't argue with someone directly on a subject, you can always bring Maxboxing into the conversation and start arguing against them, even when you're responding to someone on a different website's forum.

Classic bullshit tactic.

 

What the fuck are you babbling about?

I showed you that todays American Welterweights are dogshit. Half of them aren't even Welters and one of them ain't even a fucking Yank to begin with.

You haven't explained that one away yet. Until you do, Its my fucking house and I'll watch what I want on TV.

 

I guess imitation is supposed to be a form of flattery, but when you do it, it seems more like a lack of originality.

 

Original?

Its a pretty original idea to dig up the top 10 American Welters and ask a very simple questions:

1. Why is one of them listed as American, despite being Haitian??

2. Why are 3 of them ex 140lbrs with very patchy records at same??

3. Why won't the best of them make the biggest fight out there??

4. How does the list stack up against the same list from 12 years ago??

The answers have not exactly been forthcoming.

 

Where was Berto born?

Where did he spend most of his amateur career?

What happened in his fight with Juan McPherson?

Why didn't he box for the US in the Olympics?

 

Okay, Thats a start. Lets call Berto a Yank.

What Bout the Rest?

 

The rest of what?

The first American ranked in Boxrec's welterweight rankings is the first fighter listed...Floyd Mayweather Jr.

The third is Mosley. The fourth is Berto. The sixth is Ortiz. The seventh is Jones. The tenth is Alvarado.

In Boxrec's heavyweight rankings, there's two Americans in the top ten.

Chambers at seven and Thompson at eight.

You have to go out of the top ten to find Arreola.

To get to the same number of American welterweights in Boxrec's top ten, you have to go past the top twenty heavyweights.

 

Mosley is 38, 39. Mayweather won't fight Pac. Malignaggi, Bailey and Ortiz were busts at 140, of varying hues, none of them especially pretty.

We're not talking about Boxrecs top 10.

We are talking about Boxrecs AMERICAN top 10.

 

Boxrec's welterweight top ten is mosly AMERICAN, despite age or anything else.

It's heavyweight top ten isn't.

As far as other weight classes go, that's what happens when divisions are only seven pounds apart.

A fighter like Paul Williams, or whoever else, can elect to move up in weight (or do so out of necessity) without a situation that faces cruiserweights who go from 190-200 opponents to a 250 pound Klitschko.

 

So????

What are you trying to say Mitchell???

 

Facts.

You're the one with the agenda.

 

Wait... are we supposed to be serious in this thread?

 

Not too serious, just enough to make Irish's posts look as worthless as they are.

 

You're poor company Mitchell.

American welters are a shade better than American heavies.

Floyd is quality. But he renders his quality worthless with his desultory fighting, his soporific style, and his refusal to fight the best fighter in the division, Manny Pac, preferring to engage as he does in lucrative matchups with smaller men on his own terms, while engaging Pac in an ill-advised game of racially flavoured tit-for-tat and unproven allegations of cheating.

Mosley is shot, finished. He used to be good, when he was on the gear, but now he has won 2 of his last 5. A guy who won 2 of his last 5 is the 2nd best American Welterweight?

American Welters are, by and large, shit. American heavyweights are, by and large, shit.

By your logic, that would mean both Welterweight and Heavyweight are shit divisions.


Malignaggi, Ortiz, Bailey- failed the pertinent tests at 140 and haven't done squat at 147.