Mayweather-Ortiz next?

LOL. Ortiz definitely has above average handspeed.

Sure Berto is faster. Hell, outside of Gamboa.... Berto arguably has the fastest hands in the sport. He's fast as shit.... just very flawed technically, and has no chin.

 

Nah....he must have SOME chin.

 

How does Berto have no chin? He survived the fight and Ortiz was lighting him up. I think he proved his chin is at least decent.

Ortiz isn't that fast.

 

I'm not sure what fight/fighter people are watching.

Ortiz is a fast welterweight, no question. He doesn't have Pacman speed, and he's not as fast as Berto, but he is very quick, no doot aboot it.

Berto is known to have super quick hands (and not much else, like Khan), and even he didn't make Ortiz look slow in the slightest.

 

I was exaggerating, obviously Ortiz is not faster than Floyd, but the difference in speed of hand and foot is negligable.

Once again I think people have this mental image of Floyd still being the 130 pound Floyd.

130 pound Floyd was very fast. Welterweight Floyd isn't, he's slowed down a lot.

Zab was faster than him, he didn't even look dramatically faster than Oscar, and Mosley also had an edge in handspeed.

Berto has significantly faster hands than the current version of Floyd.

Floyd is a QUICK THINKING fighter, with incredible reactions and fast strategic thought, he knows what to do and when to do it.

But if we're talking pure velocity, Pacquiao has significantly quicker hands and feet.

I guarantee you if Ortiz fights Floyd you won't see much of a difference in hand/foot speed. It'll be skill and defense that gets Floyd a clear win.

He's not even particularly mobile these days, he fights more like Toney, staying in the pocket, making people miss and countering etc.

 

No, Berto's chin is mediocre at BEST. In reality, he was hurt every single time Ortiz landed that right hook, or right uppercut flush. He survived on heart, and holding.

And Ortiz definitely has above average handspeed. Look no further than the combo he dropped Berto with in the first round to see that he has quick hands.

 

Not even close, like I said, this isn't the 130 pound Floyd, he's nowhere near as fast as Pacquiao now.

He didn't make Oscar OR Hatton look slow. Pacquiao made both of them look like they were fighting in slow motion.

Welterweight Floyd is just a fast welterweight, nothing more, he's not the speed demon he was at 130. He wins fights with pure skill and defense these days rather than speed.

 

Pac has faster hands. Floyd's upper-body movement and reflexive counterpunches are faster.

 

The best attribute Floyd has working for him is his timing. Not only does he have fast hands (which he rarely shows these days) but he knows the precise moment to throw a shot and does this consistently.

he may throw a single jab but it's thrown just as you're about to release your hands, step to get into position to punch or move forward. That allows him to become more conservative early, intimidates you then as the fight goes on he throws his hands more.

Manny simply overwhelms you with the amount of punches from the onset.

neither is better or worse, both scenarios work for either guy. If you were to ask me which guy I'd be I'd rather be Floyd. he controls the pace of the fight and takes you out of the fight by changing your mentality. Perhaps Manny would be able to make him fight at a pace he's not used to and lands on floyd more often...the risk in that is taking the in-coming. Floyd will catch him off balance, rushing in etc.

Debating which of the two has better handspeed is pointless...it's applied differently.

 

No it wasn't, his reflexes and timing were. Reflexes are part of speed yes, but he didn't win those fights with handspeed/footspeed.

Even Floyd fans like Sly and V10 know that Floyd has slowed down and is not as fast as Pacquiao.

That's no knock on Floyd, it shows that his boxing skill and defense are his best assets by far, unlike Roy, who relied 90% on speed and insane athleticism.

 

Yeah Floyd's upperbody movement is better. Pacquiao's hands, feet, and combination punching are all quicker.

I think they both have incredible reactions.

 

I agree, IMO the most exceptional thing about Floyd is just how fast he thinks and reacts in there.

The best way to put it is like I said before, he knows exactly what to do and when to do it.

And has the timing and reflexes to make it work.

As far as handspeed/footspeed, I'm talking pure velocity. And in terms of raw velocity, Pacquiao wins clearly.

Floyd is still a very quick fighter in his own right, but these days a large part of that is really just his reflexes and quick thinking.

 

:giggle:

Not to go back and forth but....

1. No point separating handspeed from combination punching.
2. No one has faster feet than Mayweather, at best Pac's is equal.
3. Reaction speed is clearly in Floyd's favour (his hit and not get hit stats back this up for one thing).

 

Most ringside media scored the fight for Marquez.

 

Nice try Zhonny. Ive seen you post at the MMA forum.

 

Now you're really reaching. ::

Better get some material ready for when they announce Spadafora or Juan Diaz as Floyd's next opponent. You may as well get a head start.

 

Oh give me a break. Plenty of people argued that DLH deserved the nod against Floyd and a grand total of nobody was very impressed with (or entertained by) Floyd's effort that night. Would hardly classify that as Floyd "knocking 'em down" or Oscar being his leftovers.

 

1) Actually there is. Big difference between 1 shot speed and combo speed. One of the reasons Tyson's handspeed was so exceptional was the speed he could reel off 4 or 5 punches, all proper, well placed power punches too. Pacquiao is the same, his combo speed makes his handspeed that little bit more exceptional compared to a guy like Berto that just throws fast single shots really.

2) You're wrong about that, clearly wrong. In fact it's the main reason Floyd stays in the pocket more now, his feet have slowed down a LOT, more than his hands. Again, the 130 pound Floyd had as good a footspeed as any version of Pacquiao, but this isn't the 130 Floyd. His feet have slowed more than his hands, he's nowhere near as mobile as he used to be, just watch the Marquez and Mosley fights. Pacquiao on the other hand, his feet are still as fast as ever somehow.

3) Yeah I concede that. Offensive/defensive reaction speed combined, Floyd is still the best. Offensively they can both spot an opening and pull the trigger in a flash, but Floyd's defensive reflexes are superb.

 

Yep. The voice of reason again :bears:

 

What on earth has that got to do with anything?

This doesn't make any sense at all. Floyd still throws the jab and counter right as fast as he can, he's simply not as fast anymore.

It's nothing to do with being aggressive, it's to do with the raw speed of their punches, feet, and combos, and in all 3 areas Pacquiao is faster.

 

In that case, Marquez beat Pacquiao twice, and then Floyd beat Marquez 12-0 after Pac ducked the rubbermatch.

 

While that's true that grand total of nobody was impressed with the fight as a whole. Oscar stopped jabbing and Floyd did enough to get by.

 

How many of the ringsidemedia scored the fight for Oscar? It was close to 80% that scored the fight for Marquez.

Floyd wasn't impressive but pratically everybody had him winning.