Hatton sucked at welter...

My amateur experience Vs Floyd's world class pro experience is still a valid comparison. Ultimately, we're 2 humans making weight, the methods/science involved are going to be very similar.

As per your thread Hut of "Size always matters". Making weight always matters.

Why do you think results often turn out DRAMATICALLY different when guys like Castillo, Guzman etc don't make weight?

It's because the other guy weakens themselves and they don't, and they have a BIG advantage come fight night, IMO bigger than a weight advantage on the night, and significantly so.

I'm honestly amazed you're even arguing with me Hut, you generally seem like a sensible chap.

It's as simple as this.

If you weigh in at 147 looking like Floyd does in that pic above (ie NOT soft like Marquez etc), with minimal bodyfat, shedding another 7 pounds is going to be a struggle.

It's going to mean either dehydrating or losing a bit of muscle.

Either one is no good. Dropping down to a weight you haven't made in 2 years+ is NEVER good. Roy, Byrd, Oscar etc are ample proof of this.

To think that Floyd weighing in at 140 would have made him no weaker than 147, looking like the above pic at 147 is nonsensical and preposterous.

Guys often look significantly stronger in the ring by not shedding the last 3 pounds or so. You think Floyd could shed an extra 7 pounds from the ripped, minimal bodyfat 147 he weighs in at and be exactly the same?? :notallthere:

9/10 boxers would agree with me.

 

Yeah, it weakens Floyd but not EVERY OTHER fighter in the sport apart from Floyd who does it.

Piece it together mate, please.

 

You piece it together please, "mate".

You have no clue what you're talking about. It affects every fighter, but a guy who made 140 in his most recent fight is going to be less affected than someone who hasn't made it in 2 years.

It's like talking to a fucking brick wall.

If you can look at that picture of Floyd, looking lean and ripped, and think he could lose 7 pounds without it making him ANY WEAKER AT ALL, you're a complete idiot.

 

So no other fighter knows how to select the right weight class for themself but Floyd? And the practice of just about every fighter in the sport (as well as athletes in every other weight class sport) drying then rehydrating to gain weight is actually counter productive?

You do realise this is what you're saying here, don't you?

 

No, it's the aim of the game. Maximise your frame for any given weight class, get down as low as you can.

147, for Hatton and now, is as low as Floyd can get, as evidenced in the Marquez fight when he forfeited half a million or something in order to weigh in at 147, and not lose another 3 pounds.

A guy who looks like Floyd does at 147 weigh ins, losing another 7 pounds having not made 140 after 2 years would weaken him.

Like I said, 9/10 boxers would agree with me.

 

Fighters look lean and ripped in the ring after rehydrating too. Just like Floyd did when he weighed 148lb at Junior Welterweight. Because they aren't loosing and gaining fat, they're losing and gaining WATER. Hatton was lean and ripped at the weigh in too. And he was lean and ripped in the ring 3lb heavier at 148lb, too, as he always was.

 

If a fighter weighs in at more the weight they walk around at, no they generally don't look lean and ripped.

Only if they walk around close to their fighting weight, and therefore don't have to lose much, just like Floyd.

A more common example of weighing in at a weight closer to their normal weight would be Marquez at 145, or Duran at 154/160. They look soft and slightly pudgy, not lean and ripped.

Some fighters stay in shape to such a degree that they don't lose or put on much weight, Floyd is a prime example.

The fact that he didn't put on much weight at 135 and 140 just validates my theory.

He grew into 147. Making 140 would have weakened him more than Hatton. Would he still have won? Well yeah, you'd have to think he would, but there is no doubt, none at all, he would have been slower and weaker than when he weighed in at 147, and more affected than Hatton.

 

Well he put about 8 pounds on when he fought at 140. Is that 'not much'....I dunno, it's 8 pounds though. Then weighed pretty much exactly the same in the Mitchel, Baldomir, Oscar and Hatton fights. That's my whole point. If he grew it was a type of growth there's no traceable evidence for. So if you want to stand by that opinion, cool, it's not a batshit crazy or anything, but since there's no evidence for it at all, I dunno where your apparent willingness to fight it to the death while calling people fucking idiots etc comes from.

But anyway, agree to disagree here. Or at least I'll agree to disagree, that'd doubtless be an unbearable concession for you.:scared2:

 

If Floyd and Hatton were both 148, regardless of the fact that Floyd hadn't made 140 in 2 years, making 140 would both affect them exactly the same. This isn't rocket science.

Does Hatton look fat in his weigh in picture? Floyd could easily lose 7 lbs of water in that pic. So could Hatton.

So Floyd making 140 when he weighed 148 would've weakened him, but Hatton making 140 when he weighed 148 would've what, caused him to be stronger?

edit: You can EASILY look lean and ripped without being dried out. Drying out will make a difference, but not being dehydrated will not make you look "pudgy" if you are already lean and ripped.

 

Hatton making 140 would not have done much because he was used to making the weight. If it made him any weaker than at 147, it wasn't by much. 140 is a comfortable weight for him to make.

Forget about walking weights or weights they come into the ring as, they are actually not that important.

The key area here is what weight you can comfortably get down to before you start getting weakened.

To think Floyd making 140 after having not made 140 for 2 years would NOT make him any weaker than Hatton, who continued to make 140 after the Floyd fight, is insane.

I'm not even a Hatton fan, and I would not pick him to beat Floyd at any weight, but I cannot tolerate this insanity of thinking that Floyd, having been a welterweight for 2 years, could make 140 as easily as Hatton, and not be remotely affected.

It's almost as insane as thinking that IF Marquez came to the ring the same weight as Floyd (which is very possible, maybe they both came in weighing 150 or so, I'm not sure), that weighing in at 147 was an beneficial to Marquez as it was to Floyd, and that Floyd could probably make 135 just as easily, afterall, they weighed the same on fight night :notallthere:

 

LOL

you are certifiably insane


You think Floyd would be more affected by draining 7 lbs of water than Hatton would, simply because Floyd hadn't done it in a while. You don't get better at cutting water or build up a tolerance to it, and it's not like it'd be the first time Floyd dried out anyway (he would come in at 145-146 for 140 lb fights).

The difference with Marquez is that Marquez looked like shit at 147, whereas he was normally ripped. Hatton looked exactly the same at 147 as he did at 140.

 

According to MWS, Jorge Arce didn't have a size advantage over Skinny Hussein when they fought, because they both comfortably made the weight of 112. The fact that Arce walked into the ring weighing 130 lbs and Hussein walked into the ring weighing 119 lbs is not important.

 

Actually it's you that is certifiably insane. We're talking about what weight you can get down to, not what you walk at. Two very different things. Hatton walks around at least as heavy as most junior middleweights, but can also get down 14 pounds lower. Size difference in the ring is another matter, not related to what we're talking about. We're talking about making weight.

And yes, if you haven't made a certain weight for at least 2 years, and have put on extra muscle in your current weight division and grown into it, of course you're going to find it harder to lose the weight, as you're going to have to shed MORE water, or start losing muscle.

Either one is bad, as I'm sure Oscar or Roy or Chris Byrd or many other fighters would tell you.

Here is Oscar weighing in at 154.



Actually looks like he could potentially lose a bit more weight than Floyd when Floyd weighed in against Hatton.

But what do you know, losing those extra 7 pounds to fight Pacquiao made him slow and weak, so obviously not, because guess what, he hadn't made the weight in years, so despite being a natural welter, it was pretty fucking hard for him to make 147 without being weak and slow.

Again, thinking that Floyd could make a weight he hadn't made in 2 years as easily as Hatton, without being affected at all, is fucking insane and illogical.

I bet even Floyd himself would probably tell you he would have had a lot of difficult making 140.

 

1. Walking around weight doesn't mean shit. In-ring weight does. You trying to conflate the two is either stupid, dishonest, or both.

2. Oscar left 147 a decade earlier because he couldn't make the weight anymore. He didn't weigh in at 155 for 154 lb fights, he weighed in in the 160s. Floyd left 140 because he wanted to fight Oscar, not because he couldn't make the weight. He weighed in at 148 for the Hatton fight, not 158. If you had any sense you would be so embarrassed by the fact that you made such a moronic analogy that you would leave this forum and never return.

 

2 years, 7 years, either way, Floyd was a welter by the time he fought Hatton, and Floyd was a junior middle by the time he fought Floyd and Pacquiao.

So you can look at that pic of Floyd looking solid as a rock at 147 and think yeah he could easily lose another 7 pounds, yet look at that pic of Oscar at 154 looking slightly soft and thinking no way, of course he couldn't lose another 7 pounds ::

Fucking idiots.

 

Here is Floyd when he actually fought at 140, against Corley.



Here is Floyd against Hatton, having been at 147 for 2 years.





If you think Floyd was the same size as when he was at 140, and could have made 140 as easily as Hatton, you're a total fucking retard and you need a meaty left hook to the jaw.

 

You really suck at analogies. You are comparing a picture of him moving in the ring in his very first fight at 140 to a picture of him flexing his muscles 3 years later at 147. He weighed 145 lbs in the ring against Corley, and 148 lbs against Hatton. Woo!

Aside from that, to begin with nobody said he was the same size in his first fight at 140 as his 5th fight at 147 (technically 4th, one was at 154 against DLH). Nobody said he didn't grow into the weight at 140. But that doesn't mean that he couldn't make 140.

Finally, I thought "weight" didn't matter, and only "size" did, and "size" was determined by "frame?" Going by that logic, we should laud Floyd for defeating Hatton, since Floyd is a natural junior lightweight and Hatton is a natural junior welter.

 

Floyd 148 vs Gatti



Floyd 148 vs Hatton



Floyd 148 vs Oscar



I do agree with you that he grew a bit between Corley and Gatti (aka the 3lb the scales & pictures show) - and that he's grown a bit since coming back from 'retirement' (aka about another 3 or 4 lb). Between Gatti and Hatton? The scale weight doesn't show it and neither do the photos, IMO.

 

152 vs Mosley



He's definitely a full blown welterweight now (though still a below average sized one). You're totally right that he's grown between Corely & Mosley, I'd agree with that 100%.

 

You know what's funny...when you look at Floyd vs Corrales then look at him vs say Mosley...if there's reason to suspect Manny of juicing, Floyd certain comes under suspicion as well.

Better yet...pull out a copy of Floyd vs N'dou and Marquez vs Gainer...those fights were on the same card...Floyd was at 135 and Marquez was still at 126. Floyd wasn't nearly as muscled then as he is now.

Look at his traps as a lightweight compared to now.

 

He's clearly, clearly bigger against Hatton than against Corley or anyone else against 140.

If you have any doubt at all, just load the fights.

I'm sure, like me, you have these fights on your computers.

He actually still looked more like a 140 pounder in his first 3 fights at welterweight.

Even against Baldomir he looked significantly more slender than against Hatton.

It's no coincidence that since Oscar, he's looked like a proper welterweight. He obviously bulked up a bit to compete with Oscar, and he's just naturally grown into that size now.

So yeah, against Hatton and Marquez and Mosley, he looked significantly bigger than the 140 pound Floyd, that's beyond dispute.

Saying Floyd could have made 140 as easily as Hatton at the time is like saying that when Pacquiao fought Clottey, he could have made 135 as easily as Marquez. Just absurd.

 

Corley was Floyd's 1st Fight EVER @ 140...Not the Best Example to Illustrate his SIZE...



REED:hammert:

 

I said any fight at 140, or even his first couple of fights at 147.

 

Right fine, we disagree. I don't think either of us has anything progressive or interesting to say on this now. I think the pictures I posted (along with his in ring weights) say all I've got to say on this.

 

So let me get this straight, you think having not made 140 in 2.5 years, you think he could have made the weight JUST as easily as Hatton? ::

Is that really what you're saying?

 

Yeah repeat yourself and add an laughing emoticon as if that progresses the discussion.

 

How do you know this? And the fact that both men weighed 148 on fight night? I'm not saying it is wrong, but I have looked and have yet to see a single reliable source stating as such...

MTF :dunno:

 

Skinny Hussein. What an underachiever that guy was.

 

Agreed, I liked watching him bash up our Brits in Commonwealth title fights and always thought he could have gone alot further

 

You're right. He just seemed to freeze up when got to the big time. Beautiful boxer to watch when he was on song but his brother Hussey seemed to have more heart.