When Floyd fought Hatton

Could he have made 140 as easily as Hatton, without being weakened at all?

When they fought, Floyd hadn't made 140 in 2.5 years, and had 4 fights at 147 or above.

Hatton had one fight at 147 against Collazo, then dropped back down, and continued to make 140. He weighed 140 in his most recent 2 fights before Floyd, and weighed 140 in his subsequent 3 fights after Floyd.

NOTE - this is not about who would have won had the fight been held at 140, it has nothing to do with that, it's simply - could Floyd have made that weight as easily as Hatton, without it affecting him at all?





Here is Floyd when he actually fought at 140, against Corley.



Here is Floyd against Hatton, having been at 147 for 2 years.

 

Please for the love of god, find something else to talk about in here!!!

Any threads having to do with Manny and Floyd should be combined and fucking deleted!!

This furum has turned to garbage!

 

I do agree with you Z, it's getting tedious, but I want to gauge if the whole forum actually has a modicum of sense, or shares the opinion of Hut Hut and loadedgloves.

 

Well I'll go first to illustrate the 'yes' (in the sense it wouldn't have impacted the fight worth a shit) case for anyone who hasn't been following this (then leave the thread because im bored of this topic).

He hadn't grown any in the ring since he moved up, he was still weighing 148, as he had in his last 2 JWW fights. Ie, not cutting weight at all to make 147 and not rehydrating at all. 148 was also Hatton's standard weight at 140 and what he came in at against Floyd (in contrast to the bloated 155 odd he was versus Collazo).

So there's no evidence to think Floyd had grown beyond the capability of making JWW if he'd had the inclination or met the necessity to. He just didn't have the inclination because he didn't need to to make this fight. Since he hadn't grown I see no reason to think he'd find it much more difficult than he did against Gatti.

Floyd 148 vs Gatti



Floyd 148 vs Hatton



Floyd 148 vs Oscar



He grew between the Corley fight and Gatti (from 145 to 148 in the ring) and he's grown since coming back from his phony retirement (from 148 to 152 odd). Between Gatti and Hatton neither the scale nor the photos show any growth or any reason to think he couldn't have made the same weight as Hatton if he had had to. As easily as against Gatti? Maybe slightly more difficult maybe not, but not with a fight-effecting degree of difficulty. Almost every fighter in the sport finds 7lb of water to dry out pretty easily.

 

That's not the question.

The question is, could he have made 140 just as easily as Hatton, without weakening himself at all.

 

Of course not. The only people saying that are very predictable and have one thing in common. Guess what it is?

 

Well loadedgloves seemed like a decent poster at first, but now it's clear he's a complete and utter Floyd nuthugger, more than anyone on this site actually.

Hut Hut? I have no idea. I like him, and I'm very surprised, I thought he had more common sense than to really think Floyd could have made 140 just as easily. He doesn't seem like a Floyd groupie to me.

 

Hatton looked OK at 147 lbs, not bloated or anything.

 

Mate, can I just ask why you have to be so obnoxious every time you have a disagreement with somebody? Is your self image so tied up in being right that you have to belittle everyone who disagrees with you to shore it up? You do it every time. I'll say no more.

 

I'm not a groupie or hater of anyone any more. In just about every thread I go back and forth agreeing & disagreeing with posters in defence and criticism of all fighters (except Duran who rules). I just call it as I see. In this case as all the objective facts line up.

 

Floyd @ 140 looks in shape, but at the same time looks too thin.

 

Where's the evidence that Floyd was bigger than Hatton at that point? That's my only question.

Both came into the ring at approximately the same weight in every fight (apart from Collazo where Hatton weighed significantly more; aka he was the only one who had ever bulked up to a higher fighting weight). Hatton was the only one who ballooned up between fights. Floyd was the only one who had fought 1 and two divisions below 140 before.

So you may have the opinion that Floyd would struggle to get back down to 140 despite not growing any in the interm but if you're honest you'll have to acknowledge that it's based on no evidence and merely a belief or intuition.

Nothin wrong with that, that wouldn't make you wrong, but that's the facts of this tedious debate whether you'll acknowledge it or not.

 

Did you look at the pictures in my post, from the three fights where he was exactly the same weight in the ring across 3 divisions? You honestly notice a difference there? What accounts for it? Is he fatter against Gatti?

He put on 3 solid pounds between the Corley and Gatti fight. He definitely grew between Corley and Hatton, Mex is right. He's also grown since then.

 

If you were being truly objective, common sense would dictate that a guy who hasn't made 140 in 2.5 years would have a lot more trouble making it than a guy who made it in his previous fight and next fight.

Since the Morales era, I'm also objective. With fight picks, I pick who I think wins rather than who I want.

As for this, it couldn't be more simple.

I'll say the same thing about Pacquiao.

Even if his in the ring weight is more or less the same, of course Pacquiao would have a harder time making 135 now than Marquez, because he hasn't made that weight in 3 fucking years.

 

I made my comment after looking at the pic of floyd vs Corley, which I thought he looked pretty thin from the pic.

From the pic of him vs Gatti, he looks huge, compared to the Hatton/De La Hoya pics, but that might just be the size of the image.

 

Common sense might well dictate it if you didn't look at the specifics of the case. If common sense had you assume the guy had grown like 95% of fighters who move up do, but which he hadn't (yet).

You might just as easily say 'Hatton weighed' 185lb 4 months before the fight, Floyd weighed 152lb, common sense dictates that Hatton is gonna have more problems making 140.' Which wouldn't really be true either.

Common sense isn't a competent arbitrator here.

Can't you just fucking admit it's an opinion you have; I'll do the same, concede that neither of us can ever prove it either way and move on?

 

He looks and is exactly the same size. 148lb. Mex is right, he did grow after the Corley fight.

 

That pic is misleading. It makes Floyd look huge and muscular.

If you actually watch the fights, you'll see my pics tell the truer tale.

 

No, it's not opinion, it's fact.

Guys who make 140 in their previous AND subsequent fights are going to have an easier time making 140 than a guy who hasn't made 140 in 2.5 years. Pretty simple.

And I mentioned Pacquiao to prove I have no agenda and I'm being objective.

To reiterate, I am not a Hatton fan and I would pick Floyd over Hatton at any weight.

And even though I don't agree, let's just say yes, Hatton and Floyd are exactly the same size.

Even if they are the same size, Hatton is still going to have an easier time making 140 than Floyd, who hasn't made the weight in 2.5 years. Simple.

If Oscar fought Plasterito instead of Mosley, he would have had a harder time making that weight than Plasterito even though Plasterito is bigger, because again, he hadn't made that weight in years.

 

BTW to round this tedium off, the reason this ever became a topic of discussion YEARS ago in the first place (between me and Feebes, I think) - was that Hatton was said to be ineffective at 147lb because he didn't have the physicality he relied on at junior welter against guys like Collazo who weighed 160 odd in the ring. That's why Hatton was discredited as a 147lb opponent. And as a WELTERWEIGHT win, relative purely to other contemporary welterweights, it's not a fantastic win for Floyd.

But from the perspective of history/p4p etc, it stands up fine because the dynamic that made Hatton suffer against Collazo wasn't at play. If Floyd gained an advantage in strength over Hatton by them both skipping the dry/rehydrate step in the dance, it was a minor one. Nothing close to a fight altering one, IMO. Hatton still pushed Floyd back consistently. Both weighed the same as each other and both weighed the same as they did as junior welterweights and if either was to be weakened by drying out 8 pounds compared to their identical fight weight then both would be to some extent. And which one more is basically speculation. What isn't open to speculation was the actual ring weights which matched a prospective JWW match up precisely.

The Hatton win pads Floyd's historical standing against junior welterweights and he loses some points for the higher weigh in, but not much given the circumstances. If this sounds like Floyd apologism or nuthugging then my opinions on Floyd-Marquez where I cry farce would be a real mix up.

And yet I fear I would talk on this til doomsday or until I bore myself to fucking death.:NotThink:

 

God you're a fucking arsehole. It's rare I descend to this online especially here, but you really are a thorough bred, insufferable arsehole.

 

Yes that's right, I am an arsehole, I'm fully aware of that.

And you are a retard. Unfortunately, being retarded, you're probably oblivious to it.

 

I seriously think you might have some personality disorder, mex. This total inability to concede a millimetre over anything, ever, is dysfunctional. Really not normal.

 

Pics can be misleading. I've just referred back to the corley fight and seen mayweather. He looks in prime condition to me physically, but compare that to the pic, he looks pretty skinny.

 

He did at 140. Which is why I've always thought Floyd was kind of a large 140 pounder, naturally. At 140, his frame still had some room for growth (unlike a Hatton or Tszyu).

He even looks like a small welter against Baldomir, slender, and not exactly that tall.

Then he suddenly starts looking more like a proper welterweight against Oscar and Hatton, and by the time he fought Mosley I must admit I was pretty shocked that him and Shane looked EXACTLY the same size.

I was sure Shane would be clearly the bigger man.

 

How do you account for him weighing the same against Gatti and Hatton. Was he leaner against Hatton? Did he redistribute weight in a way that made him look bigger?

I don't see any difference between the fights personally in the pictures or the footage, but since you're axiomatically right on everything, always, & Im a retard there must be a pretty big one (which can't possibly be a matter of your changing perceptions as Floyd's success at the weigh built). I'm open beaked like a baby bird.

 

Pacquiao's in ring weights for David Diaz and Oscar were the same. Yet he had a thicker/more muscular torso against Oscar.

He had to rehydrate less when he got to weigh in at a much higher weight.

Pacquiao against Oscar and Floyd against Hatton = more muscle, less water.

 

So as it happens, Pacquiao is a good example. Even though his frame is small, he is clearly thicker bodied now than against Diaz, and there is no way he'd be able to make 135 now.

Yet what do you know? He comes into the ring basically the same size.

 

Pac was actually a lb and a half heavier versus Oscar. But fair enough reasonable explanation, you win, I revoke all claims etc and so on.

 

Mex is a great poster man, I can see his point with this to be honest