Which Lightweight would have had the best chance to beat PRIME Duran?

Whitaker doesn't have the work-rate?

Hardly a weakness for Pea. He threw as much as Mosley ever did.

 

Just curious, Sly --- why are Armstrong, Williams & Leonard off the poll?

 

They old...dude...:scared:

 

I see. I look forward to Duran's many worshippers admitting two or three decades from now that he doesn't deserve mentioning with the best in LW history because he, "old, dude."

We shall see how we all mature to that point of view down the line.

 

30-40 years from now we will all be saying that Guerrero, Rios and Juan Diaz were the greatest lightweights EVER..and that those old heads from the 70-80-90's like Whitaker, Chavez, Duran, etc...were overated and couldn't compete....


Marquez has fought Juan Diaz, old ass Casamayor and Katsidis...and he is already consider superior to one of the greatest fighters to have ever fought between 130-140 pounds...Julio Cesar Chavez...

:hammert:

 

Who considers Marquez a superior LW to Chavez? I certainly don't, for the record --- but those people who scoff at Williams, Leonard & company beating a more modern fighter like Duran, as I see it, had better be ready to toe the line when they're old & grey & the best Lightweights of the 2030's & '40's are being compared with a, "chugging relic," like Manos de Piedra.

 

Whitaker would've beaten Duran @ lightweight. He'd make Duran miss, and he wouldn't have been bullied on the inside either. Further, he'd have the chin to take his best shots (which would've only been one-at-time in all likelihood) and the stamina to go the full 15.

With his speed, stamina, strength and power at lightweight, Shane matches up well stylistically against Duran I think, even though Duran has a better skill set.

JC Chavez is a lesser version of Duran, though he has unique skill traits that would've given Duran fits. Still, Duran wins a clear decision.

DLH @ 135 (the version who fought Ruelas, Molina, Leija) would lose to Duran. At 140 perhaps where he'd be stronger, but at 135, no.

How well Floyd would do is something i'm largely basing on his pair of fights with Castillo, who is a poor man's Chavez, who in turn, is Duran-lite. As good and elusive as Floyd is, he's not Whitaker. Duran would find him, and unlike Whitaker who had the durability to match his skills, it wouldn't have surprised me if he got overpowered.

I'm not so sure about Pacquiao. The only fight we officially have of him at lightweight is against Diaz. But if the version that flattened Hatton dropped five pounds and retained that superb form, it'd be an incredible fight.

 

I was just thinking about this for some reason,

I think Pea, but I could possibly see Floyd and maybe the others but Pea is the only one that I think would beat him without doubt

 

Pernell Whitaker

 

Also, a few posts back on the subject of Chavez > JM Marquez.

Marquez i think has a better skill-set than Chavez, but Chavez is better by simple virtue of him being this unstoppable force/immovable object (a lot like Duran) during his prime at lightweight. Juan just doesn't have JCC's characteristic gifts (durability, size, strength, power, etc) to duplicate the same feat.

 

i said workrate + firepower

 

The reasons Whitaker would have a much better chance at beating Duran than Floyd are as follows:

1. Southpaw: Most obvious reason. Pea also had an excellent southpaw jab, which would have been problematic for Duran. Floyd has a good jab when he uses it, but not as consistent with it as Pea.

2. Physical strength: Most UNDERRATED aspect of Whitaker by far. Though he was not physically powerful, he WAS very physically strong. Duran would man handle Floyd on the inside, but such wouldnt be the case with Whitaker.

3. Workrate: Pea simply was a more active fighter than Floyd, which would allow him to score more against Duran. Floyd is more conservative, which has worked for him considering his sharp shooting ability.... but against Duran Floyd would have been faced with a pressure fighter unlike any other. He wouldnt find it easy at all to pot shot Duran, as he did Hatton I.E.

4. Different defensive approaches: Floyd's defensive ability centers around his shoulder roll, and in his younger days... his legs. We ALL can agree that Mayweather is more athletic than Pea was, but IMO the shoulder roll would backfire on him against Duran. As Roberto's right hand IMO would be the perfect weapon to land on Floyd, and rest assured he would have punished Floyd's body as well. And Duran was quick enough on his feet to cut the ring off on Floyd effectively.

Pea on the other hand operated in tight circles with amazing reflexes, head movement, and overall more defensive moves than Floyd. I see Duran having more difficulty figuring out Whitaker's style than Floyd's.

At 135.... to be quite honest.... Duran would have fucked Floyd up. At 147, Mayweather-Duran is a more competitive fight, but I'd still take Duran, if we're talking the Montreal version.

Whitaker-Duran is basically a 50-50 fight at 135.

And Chavez would have had NO chance at beating Duran, I'm sorry. Great as Julio was, Duran was simply better than him at just about every facet of the game.

 

Let's just be a bit unbiased here. As great as he was, Duran never faced one lightweight who could have beaten most if not all this list. But IMO Whitaker and Floyd have the best chances of beating a prime Duran simply because of styles

 

MWS off the charts with ignorance in this thread... I love how blatanly false things are said as if there is some sort of informed consensus on them among the majority of fight observers

 

Such as? ::

 

I chose Mosley. He was a monster there and unlike that of many fighters competing below their natural weight, Mosley's durability didn't seem to be compromised.

And his speed there was unmatched.

 

Duran has the perfect style to combat Pea's sht-fighting. He'd grind him up in the clinches, successfully counter him on the outside, be utterly undeterred by Whitaker's offense. And remember that Duran need not be set to punch, is entirely unpredictable, and as with Whitaker's offense, would not be discouraged by Whitaker's ability to make Duran miss on occasion.

He wouldn't neglect the body. He'd match Whitaker's speed. Outwork him. Over-tax his defense. And if he didn't stop him through attrition, he'd surely have beaten the fight out of him by the time the final bell rings.

There's a few other candidates I would've liked to see added, for the sake of discussion: Arguello, Ortiz and of course, Armstrong.

 

Chavez was p4p #1 or #2 for a while. He slipped a little and then Whitaker got him. Duran quit vs Leonard, Lawlor, and Joppy. I'm only really counting Leonard and Lawlor. When Chavez knocked down Duran, he would finish the job.

 

I think Duran/Chavez at 135 is a competitive fight. Duran's speed, foot-work, angles and combination punching would be all he would need to win, but he'd absorb some serious punishment in the process, make no mistake.

Duran would exploit with great success Chavez's tendency and preference for being set to punch, and the deliberate manner in which he selects and delivers his punches.

But ultimately, given that Chavez was durable as hell, and would no doubt be in there for the duration, Duran would slow down to the point Chavez would have plenty of opportunities to dish out punishment and rip-off combinations to the head and body.

And at 135, Chavez was not the lumbering, flat-footed fighter he would become by the time he faced Whitaker at 147. So it's not as if he'd be helpless, even against the dynamic offensive monstrosity that Duran had been at 135.

The bottom line is Duran, for the most part, would dictate the pace of the fight, and as a result, Chavez would not be able to achieve the momentum and sustained assault he would need to win. But by fight's end, because he was so skilled, and because he had impeccable timing and brilliant in-fighting skills, he would've inflicted enough punishment that the fight would not have been characterized as one-sided.
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Marquez being better than Chavez, greater than Chavez, etc

Marquez having the firepower necessary to keep chavez off of him

marquez doing anything but getting decapitated by Edwin Rosario

marquez not getting completely frustrated and bamboozled by Hector Camacho

shall I go on??

 

I'd say all four of those are NOT generally accepted as truths among fans. I'd say that each statement merits debate.

 

no they don't

 

NOPE, the only one that MIGHT merit some debate is Marquez vs. Camacho...Camacho would win..but I don't think he would dominate Marquez...

 

so you're saying all four of those statements are true? in your opinion? and you're not interested in hearing the case for why one or more may not be true? and you're the one accusing MWS of inventing commonly held truths that don't exist? WTF?

 

Mayweather easily

 

Just as I see it. Well-said.

 

Avoid fighting Roberto Duran......

 

He's fight Duran and beat him. Be close though. I think Manny would beat Duran CLEARLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

SRL showed if you run away that Duran gets frustrated. Mayweather runs away better than SRL.

 

::