At the danger of stoking fightbeats standard post-fight hyperbole - is there ANY precedent in boxing for the way Manny throws hard combos from the angles he does? It's almost like he can drop his full weight back and forth in mid air without having to fully plant his feet. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I don't think I've quite seen anything like it. A) Can anyone put their finger on exactly what the hell Im talking about and explain it to me? :: B) Can you think of a fighter who's style of combo punching reminded you of Manny's in it's style/appearance? C) Am I just getting carried away?
getting carried away pac is gonna get stretched and embarassed by floyd if he ever agrees to prove he is clean
I see where you are coming from. I think a large part of it is a Southpaw thing and the rest of it is just good footwork. He always has a foot planted, he just does a trick-of-the-loop with his feet. Call it "sleight of foot". That and steroids.
You're getting carried away. Manny is an all time great, no doubt, but there have been many fighters that can throw hard punches in combination from weird angles. Naseem hamed, Aaron Pryor and Michael Spinks spring to mind in that regard...
Naseem Hamed was not a good combo puncher, tbh. And he was always very planted when he put his shots together. Pryor might be a fair shout, but he definitely seems to wing & load up with his much more, without the quick turnover Manny seems to get in his combos. Im not saying the quality of manny's combo punching is without precedent. Just that his style of getting hard shots off, without (ostensibly) setting his feet seems quite unique.
Nah mate I'd say he was always a pure pot shotter. Obviously he would sometimes follow up a successful one with one or two more if he was in position to, but 90% of the attacks he launched were about the first impactful shot, then just seeing where he ended up after that. <iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ExxA7X4TR3Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> :Thumbs:
Thanks. And I concede the combo punching point. He definitely wasn't in the league of Manny when it comes to combos...
Always very planted with his weight, Hamed though. Manny seems to skip over the canvas like a flat stone yet somehow manage to drop step his weight into the shots anyway. It's really quite something. When we're talking about great attributes to build a perfect fighter from, gimme Manny's feet, even above Ali's.
Manny's a quick little Mosquito, no doubt. Great great fighter. We are fortunate to have a guy like this in this era.
After watching some more clips I think I understand this better - he basically mixes in arm punches with the harder ones that he has his balance behind. The ones going counter to his balance (arm punches basically) he usually throws to distract from the harder ones about to follow. Or sometimes just because he sees the opportunity and there's no reason not to slap the guy with that as well and keep him on the defensive. Those are usually the weird looking ones - the overhand and long uppercut jabs, the strange downward overhand bodyshots etc. He's a beautiful thing.
First, we should all acknowledge that Pacquiao fought in a distinctly different style Saturday, then he had, for example, against Cotto, Clottey and Margarito. The reason for this is debatable. Having said that, I thought his style Saturday, which was unlike his style in recent fights, was very much Duranesque. The intensity of the pressure he applied on Mosley along with the knock-down were above all what I thought allowed him to dominate the way he did. But to answer your question, he moves very well at the waist. If you watch him throw to the body, he's very quick at getting out of harm's way simply by moving at his waist. His combo punching is pretty scientific I think. And it varies throughout the fight, as he lulls his opponents into expecting one thing, at which point he throws something else. The feint, as I'm sure we all realize, that led to the knock-down, was particularly Duranesque. He feinted with his left, threw a jab and managed to hit Mosley on the side of the chin where it hurts the most.
:: Worst example ever. Not even close to being a good combo puncher. Despite the weird angles, he had to have his feet firmly planted and was strictly a pot shotter, one big punch at a time. Tyson is a much better example, but he is stylistically different to Pacquiao. I know exactly what you mean Hut. It's actually bizarre. He can be moving forwards, backwards, or sideways, yet can throw a proper fast, accurate combo with meaty power shots without even needing his feet planted. He looks off balance, yet somehow isn't. It's one of the reasons he has the best offense in boxing.
Not even close, not in the same stratosphere. Look at the example Hut posted, this is a supposedly prime Hamed, fighting one of the many legends he fought, and look at the handspeed and footspeed. Nothing special for his weight class. Not even approaching the league of Manny, Floyd, Donaire, Gamboa, or a prime Judah.
I agree with you, over the years he's become more polished and skilled, but ultimately it's his freakish talent that makes his so watchable. The way he moves is weird. He has fast feet, but the way he moves is so unusual, almost like he's gliding or floating across the canvas.
Nothing special? Naz's speed was where he derived his power, and he was easily one of the hardest hitting super bantams/fws of the era. His footspeed was also otherworldly, his defense often consisted entirely of jumping in with a huge punch and then jumping out again. Thinking back, there were a few instances where he threw lightning combos, as well.
No it wasn't, his power came from natural strength, chunky thighs, and fucking loading up on punches. Plus in LARGE part weird angles that guys didn't expect. Just watch the video above. His speed isn't even CLOSE to proper speed demons like Manny, or prime Floyd, Mosley, Judah etc. And these days, guys like Donaire and Gamboa are MUCH faster than the space monkey. Watch his fight with Barrera, their handspeed is equal.
Pac has chunky thighs and calves too, that doesn't mean his speed isn't a huge part of his power equation. Loading up on punches isn't really a great recipe for success at a world class level. He was able to load up the way he did, come from weird angles, and actually land because of his speed. At what point in the Barrera fight was their handspeed demonstrated as equal? Saying Barrera's handspeed was equal to Hamed's is as ridiculous as saying Marquez hit harder than Hamed. I'm guessing you have a strong Hamed hater streak..
In sports science, they distinguished between 'plyometric strength' and 'starting strength' and I think naz was all about the 2nd type. The ability to explode from a standstill to full power in a flash. Naz could really do that I think, just fly into something from a flat footed position. But he was very frequently flat footed, so he was less mobile as a fighter (plyometric ability is basically springyness, and explodes from a recoil and I think that's something Naz lacked (and Pac has in spades)) ; and he tended to really commit his weight to shots so he wasn't in a position to put them together quickly either. So, I think Naz WAS fast, at what he did....but the nature of his style and the brand of his speed was more limiting.
I know you're a big Hamed fan, but if you truly believe Hamed was as fast as Pacquiao you're literally blind. Watch Hamed against Barrera then Pacquiao against Barrera. The disparity in hand and footspeed is astronomical. Again, Barrera's hands looked just as fast when they fought, there was basically no difference. Manny was much faster than Barrera when they fought.
I don't think Hamed was ever anywhere near as fast as Pac (overall, anyway) but his reflex' had slowed down by Barrera
