Roy Jones Jr. Was his chin always suspect?

Ramonza Soliloquies · May 25, 2011

Destruction and Mayhem said: ↑

Splendid word! :giggle:

i use it all the time myself.

In any event, Jones was virtually flawless, if he ever had a weakness it was his chin...but he never showed this deficiency until post Ruiz.

I agree with REED's point. Even if you're as elusive as Roy was, you can't go 12 rounds without getting hit with some hard shots. He was obviously not the china chin that his latter career seems to suggest.
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For the record, I also agree with REED's contention there.

Pascals Wager · May 25, 2011

Ramonza Soliloquies said: ↑

I don't quite see it in those terms, but I will indulge you with some names after I explain the way I do see it.

Now, I routinely see Jones' name bandied about as, "most athletic ever," "virtually flawless," (in this very thread, in fact!), & even, wait for it..."maybe the best fighter of all-time!" Yes, I've heard that contention.

Then I look at his peak years. Let's say, between Toney & Kelly, so roughly 94-02. The list of names during that period, & while I do not disrespect them, I just think there are damn well dozens upon dozens of all-time greats who would look every inch as dominant as Jones would with these guys. From the descriptions of him, I should think his victim list had 168-175lb. versions of Duran, Foreman, Ali, Leonard, Armstrong & Pep on them...instead, I find names like Harding, Telesco, Hill, Gonzalez, Griffin & Del Valle.

When I look at the resumes of fighters like Ezz Charles, or Muhammad Ali, or Hank Armstrong --- I see guys who not only looked great beating a mixed crop (as Jones made a career of doing), but who fought & bested rivals who were literally light-years ahead of Jones' competition. Does he really deserve such praise ahead of these guys? What would Archie Moore have done with the names I mentioned? What would so many others have done? Would they have looked any less brilliant? I don't doubt for one second they'd look just as hot, yet they also defeated so much better men than Jones ever did. If that isn't over-rated, I don't know what is.

Oh, & pound-for-pound? I'll give you ten names in history off the absolute top of my head, nothing more than a cursory glance at better men who would beat Jones (or be no worse than 50-50 with the man), were they prime at the same size...

Roberto Duran
Ezzard Charles
Muhammad Ali
Sandy Saddler
Henry Armstrong
Pernell Whitaker
Floyd Mayweather
Thomas Hearns
Ray Leonard
Ray Robinson

Every single man on that list out-shines Jones for achievements, too (excepting possibly Mayweather, who has dropped off heavily in this regard during recent years), yet none outside of Robinson & perhaps Armstrong are ever described as being, "flawless," or, "IMO, the best fighter ever, period," as Jones is. I didn't pause for one moment to come up with a name in jotting them out, incidentally.

Jones is the best Super-Middle ever head-to-head, at least. No question on that --- & I will say there were few fighters in recent memory more dazzling, yes, from an athletic standpoint. That's as far as it goes. Place him in Charles' day, when he's fighting month-to-month, with minimal preparation, & watch the losses mount in jaw-droppingly steady fashion.
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Good post.

Punk · May 25, 2011

I think Jones's chin has always been below par, he just never got hit with the ones you don't see. Now he does, and you see the results. I don't buy the weight excuse.....you get chinny because you dehydrate and don't rehydrate properly. Maybe this stands for Tarver 1, maybe 2, but not the rest. He's just getting hit flush and hard now, it's that simple.

EDIT - for context. The whole deal with weight affecting chin is all about dehydration. I'm not aware of it being related to weight, rather to fluid around the brain. When you sweat down you reduce the brain's natural cushioning - if you don't rehydrate, you're more susceptible to a KO. Makes sense, but I can't see how it explains Roy's apparent total loss of punch resistance since Ruiz - surely the guy isn't totally dehydrated for every single fight after Ruiz? Of course not.

To me, he's always been a bit shaky in the chin, but he never got hit with the one he didn't see so it was never evident. Even when hit flush, he saw it coming and braced, rolled, whatever. You see it, you can generally handle it. If he got buzzed, his defence was still good enough to avoid the follow up. cover, move, hold and recover. I see it as being more about his slowing reflexes, hence he doesn't always see them coming any more.

I have always thought this, but of course could never prove it. Once or twice I saw Roy take an innocuous shot to the face and saw his eyes roll slightly - I recall my reaction at the time too was "man no one can hit him twice, if they could he'd drop".

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect I'm right.

Ramonza Soliloquies · May 25, 2011

Punk said: ↑

I think Jones's chin has always been below par, he just never got hit with the ones you don't see. Now he does, and you see the results. I don't buy the weight excuse.....you get chinny because you dehydrate and don't rehydrate properly. Maybe this stands for Tarver 1, maybe 2, but not the rest. He's just getting hit flush and hard now, it's that simple.

EDIT - for context. The whole deal with weight affecting chin is all about dehydration. I'm not aware of it being related to weight, rather to fluid around the brain. When you sweat down you reduce the brain's natural cushioning - if you don't rehydrate, you're more susceptible to a KO. Makes sense, but I can't see how it explains Roy's apparent total loss of punch resistance since Ruiz - surely the guy isn't totally dehydrated for every single fight after Ruiz? Of course not.

To me, he's always been a bit shaky in the chin, but he never got hit with the one he didn't see so it was never evident. Even when hit flush, he saw it coming and braced, rolled, whatever. You see it, you can generally handle it. If he got buzzed, his defence was still good enough to avoid the follow up. cover, move, hold and recover. I see it as being more about his slowing reflexes, hence he doesn't always see them coming any more.

I have always thought this, but of course could never prove it. Once or twice I saw Roy take an innocuous shot to the face and saw his eyes roll slightly - I recall my reaction at the time too was "man no one can hit him twice, if they could he'd drop".

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect I'm right.
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Thats a solid counter-argument.

Ramonza Soliloquies · May 25, 2011

Pascals Wager said: ↑

Good post.
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Thank you. I am frankly awaiting a deluge of abuse for it (I think I hear REED typing furiously as I write this), so your kindness will be remembered.

Pascals Wager · May 25, 2011

Punk said: ↑

I think Jones's chin has always been below par, he just never got hit with the ones you don't see. Now he does, and you see the results. I don't buy the weight excuse.....you get chinny because you dehydrate and don't rehydrate properly. Maybe this stands for Tarver 1, maybe 2, but not the rest. He's just getting hit flush and hard now, it's that simple.

EDIT - for context. The whole deal with weight affecting chin is all about dehydration. I'm not aware of it being related to weight, rather to fluid around the brain. When you sweat down you reduce the brain's natural cushioning - if you don't rehydrate, you're more susceptible to a KO. Makes sense, but I can't see how it explains Roy's apparent total loss of punch resistance since Ruiz - surely the guy isn't totally dehydrated for every single fight after Ruiz? Of course not.

To me, he's always been a bit shaky in the chin, but he never got hit with the one he didn't see so it was never evident. Even when hit flush, he saw it coming and braced, rolled, whatever. You see it, you can generally handle it. If he got buzzed, his defence was still good enough to avoid the follow up. cover, move, hold and recover. I see it as being more about his slowing reflexes, hence he doesn't always see them coming any more.

I have always thought this, but of course could never prove it. Once or twice I saw Roy take an innocuous shot to the face and saw his eyes roll slightly - I recall my reaction at the time too was "man no one can hit him twice, if they could he'd drop".

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect I'm right.
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I agree with this. His reflexes were so good in his prime that he hardly ever got hit flush, & never (as far as I recall) got hit flush twice in a row, & yes, he probably was able to see shots coming and brace/ roll.

The hardest I ever saw him hit was against Del Valle. He got hit flush by a shot that wasn't huge by any stretch of the imagination. However he went down, & was a bit buzzed, but tied up Del Valle well & recovered. (I have heard it argued that he slipped, as his legs betrayed him a split second after the shot).

The Genius · May 25, 2011

So the hardest he was ever hit was Del Valle which also happened to be the only shot that dropped Roy pre Ruiz? Convenient.

I know that reads like I'm having a go at you but I'm not.

Edit: clarification. I've heard it argued in the past that the hardest shots LL was ever hit by were the two that KOd him. I disagree but whatever: opinions and all that.

Pascals Wager · May 25, 2011

The Genius said: ↑

So the hardest he was ever hit was Del Valle which also happened to be the only shot that dropped Roy pre Ruiz? Convenient.

I know that reads like I'm having a go at you but I'm not.

Edit: clarification. I've heard it argued in the past that the hardest shots LL was ever hit by were the two that KOd him. I disagree but whatever: opinions and all that.
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Yeah I know. Of course. I understand that.
The most devastating looking shots are often the ones that have the most devastating effect.

However I can't recall seeing RJJ take a harder flush shot & shake it off.

What do you think of RJJ's chin?

BTW, I do think that Rahman's shot on LL (who's chin as far as I'm concerned is underrated-and better than RJJ's), is the hardest shot I've seen land on him. In fact I think that shot would have dropped most HWY's in history, & (bearing in mind the few shots he took immediately prior, his conditioning, the way he was moving into the shot from the ropes, & the way his head hit the canvas), not many would have gotten back up.

Hex-One · May 25, 2011

Ramonza Soliloquies said: ↑

I don't quite see it in those terms, but I will indulge you with some names after I explain the way I do see it.

Now, I routinely see Jones' name bandied about as, "most athletic ever," "virtually flawless," (in this very thread, in fact!), & even, wait for it..."maybe the best fighter of all-time!" Yes, I've heard that contention.

Then I look at his peak years. Let's say, between Toney & Kelly, so roughly 94-02. The list of names during that period, & while I do not disrespect them, I just think there are damn well dozens upon dozens of all-time greats who would look every inch as dominant as Jones would with these guys. From the descriptions of him, I should think his victim list had 168-175lb. versions of Duran, Foreman, Ali, Leonard, Armstrong & Pep on them...instead, I find names like Harding, Telesco, Hill, Gonzalez, Griffin & Del Valle.

When I look at the resumes of fighters like Ezz Charles, or Muhammad Ali, or Hank Armstrong --- I see guys who not only looked great beating a mixed crop (as Jones made a career of doing), but who fought & bested rivals who were literally light-years ahead of Jones' competition. Does he really deserve such praise ahead of these guys? What would Archie Moore have done with the names I mentioned? What would so many others have done? Would they have looked any less brilliant? I don't doubt for one second they'd look just as hot, yet they also defeated so much better men than Jones ever did. If that isn't over-rated, I don't know what is.

Oh, & pound-for-pound? I'll give you ten names in history off the absolute top of my head, nothing more than a cursory glance at better men who would beat Jones (or be no worse than 50-50 with the man), were they prime at the same size...

Roberto Duran
Ezzard Charles
Muhammad Ali
Sandy Saddler
Henry Armstrong
Pernell Whitaker
Floyd Mayweather
Thomas Hearns
Ray Leonard
Ray Robinson

Every single man on that list out-shines Jones for achievements, too (excepting possibly Mayweather, who has dropped off heavily in this regard during recent years), yet none outside of Robinson & perhaps Armstrong are ever described as being, "flawless," or, "IMO, the best fighter ever, period," as Jones is. I didn't pause for one moment to come up with a name in jotting them out, incidentally.

Jones is the best Super-Middle ever head-to-head, at least. No question on that --- & I will say there were few fighters in recent memory more dazzling, yes, from an athletic standpoint. That's as far as it goes. Place him in Charles' day, when he's fighting month-to-month, with minimal preparation, & watch the losses mount in jaw-droppingly steady fashion.
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Good post!

Hex-One · May 25, 2011

Punk said: ↑

I think Jones's chin has always been below par, he just never got hit with the ones you don't see. Now he does, and you see the results. I don't buy the weight excuse.....you get chinny because you dehydrate and don't rehydrate properly. Maybe this stands for Tarver 1, maybe 2, but not the rest. He's just getting hit flush and hard now, it's that simple.

EDIT - for context. The whole deal with weight affecting chin is all about dehydration. I'm not aware of it being related to weight, rather to fluid around the brain. When you sweat down you reduce the brain's natural cushioning - if you don't rehydrate, you're more susceptible to a KO. Makes sense, but I can't see how it explains Roy's apparent total loss of punch resistance since Ruiz - surely the guy isn't totally dehydrated for every single fight after Ruiz? Of course not.

To me, he's always been a bit shaky in the chin, but he never got hit with the one he didn't see so it was never evident. Even when hit flush, he saw it coming and braced, rolled, whatever. You see it, you can generally handle it. If he got buzzed, his defence was still good enough to avoid the follow up. cover, move, hold and recover. I see it as being more about his slowing reflexes, hence he doesn't always see them coming any more.

I have always thought this, but of course could never prove it. Once or twice I saw Roy take an innocuous shot to the face and saw his eyes roll slightly - I recall my reaction at the time too was "man no one can hit him twice, if they could he'd drop".

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect I'm right.
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Interesting post.

Ramonza Soliloquies · May 25, 2011

That's two for me now...when will the hammer drop? ::

REEDsART · May 25, 2011

Punk said: ↑

I think Jones's chin has always been below par, he just never got hit with the ones you don't see. Now he does, and you see the results. I don't buy the weight excuse.....you get chinny because you dehydrate and don't rehydrate properly. Maybe this stands for Tarver 1, maybe 2, but not the rest. He's just getting hit flush and hard now, it's that simple.

EDIT - for context. The whole deal with weight affecting chin is all about dehydration. I'm not aware of it being related to weight, rather to fluid around the brain. When you sweat down you reduce the brain's natural cushioning - if you don't rehydrate, you're more susceptible to a KO. Makes sense, but I can't see how it explains Roy's apparent total loss of punch resistance since Ruiz - surely the guy isn't totally dehydrated for every single fight after Ruiz? Of course not.

To me, he's always been a bit shaky in the chin, but he never got hit with the one he didn't see so it was never evident. Even when hit flush, he saw it coming and braced, rolled, whatever. You see it, you can generally handle it. If he got buzzed, his defence was still good enough to avoid the follow up. cover, move, hold and recover. I see it as being more about his slowing reflexes, hence he doesn't always see them coming any more.

I have always thought this, but of course could never prove it. Once or twice I saw Roy take an innocuous shot to the face and saw his eyes roll slightly - I recall my reaction at the time too was "man no one can hit him twice, if they could he'd drop".

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect I'm right.
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So What U're REALLY Saying is, a Prime Roy Jones is THE BEST Defensive Fighter of All Times????...If his Chin was "Always a Bit Shaky", it HAD to Take Almost Superhuman Defensive Abilities to PROTECT that Chin for 15-16 Years...

REED

REEDsART · May 25, 2011

Ramonza Soliloquies said: ↑

Thank you. I am frankly awaiting a deluge of abuse for it (I think I hear REED typing furiously as I write this), so your kindness will be remembered.
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Though U've Only Been Posting Here for a Relatively Short Period of Time, your CONTEMPT for All Things Roy Jones is QUITE Apparent...Having Fought the GOOD Fight for the Better Part of a Decade, REED has Little Remaining Desire to Convert (Or even ATTEMPT to) a Staunch RJ Naysayer...

REED

Azazel · May 25, 2011

Punk said: ↑

I think Jones's chin has always been below par, he just never got hit with the ones you don't see. Now he does, and you see the results. I don't buy the weight excuse.....you get chinny because you dehydrate and don't rehydrate properly. Maybe this stands for Tarver 1, maybe 2, but not the rest. He's just getting hit flush and hard now, it's that simple.

EDIT - for context. The whole deal with weight affecting chin is all about dehydration. I'm not aware of it being related to weight, rather to fluid around the brain. When you sweat down you reduce the brain's natural cushioning - if you don't rehydrate, you're more susceptible to a KO. Makes sense, but I can't see how it explains Roy's apparent total loss of punch resistance since Ruiz - surely the guy isn't totally dehydrated for every single fight after Ruiz? Of course not.

To me, he's always been a bit shaky in the chin, but he never got hit with the one he didn't see so it was never evident. Even when hit flush, he saw it coming and braced, rolled, whatever. You see it, you can generally handle it. If he got buzzed, his defence was still good enough to avoid the follow up. cover, move, hold and recover. I see it as being more about his slowing reflexes, hence he doesn't always see them coming any more.

I have always thought this, but of course could never prove it. Once or twice I saw Roy take an innocuous shot to the face and saw his eyes roll slightly - I recall my reaction at the time too was "man no one can hit him twice, if they could he'd drop".

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect I'm right.
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that my point of view too. And remember, making weight for the Tarver II fight was suppose to have worked great if I'm not mistaken. And a lot of people talk as if the Tarver ko was some vicious, insane shot. It wasn't imo, it was a decent blind shot, but one that many fighter would have taken without going down.

Azazel · May 25, 2011

REEDsART said: ↑

So What U're REALLY Saying is, a Prime Roy Jones is THE BEST Defensive Fighter of All Times????...If his Chin was "Always a Bit Shaky", it HAD to Take Almost Superhuman Defensive Abilities to PROTECT that Chin for 15-16 Years...

REED
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He had amazing reflexes, yes even superhuman defensive abilities. And he also fought for a long time lot of guy's that weren't in his league

Joe King · May 25, 2011

Azazel said: ↑

He had amazing reflexes, yes even superhuman defensive abilities. And he also fought for a long time lot of guy's that weren't in his league
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NO ONE was in his league in his prime and I'm talking about historically too.

REEDsART · May 25, 2011

Azazel said: ↑

that my point of view too. And remember, making weight for the Tarver II fight was suppose to have worked great if I'm not mistaken. And a lot of people talk as if the Tarver ko was some vicious, insane shot. It wasn't imo, it was a decent blind shot, but one that many fighter would have taken without going down.
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The Tarver KO Shot was RIDICULOUSLY PERFECT....

It Caught Roy BLIND, PULLING Back AND Tarver had FULL LEVERAGE & TORQUE on the Shot...As Tarver HIMSELF Said on Friday Night Fights the Week After,"If Roy Jones had Gotten up from THAT Shot, it was Gonna B a Looooong Night for Me."

Tarver Talked about Feeling the SENSATION from his FIST to his TOES, when the Shot Landed...

REED

Jimmy · May 25, 2011

I hope he gives up soon. I like his commentating and the way he's going he's not gonna be able to speak at all.

REEDsART · May 25, 2011

Azazel said: ↑

He had amazing reflexes, yes even superhuman defensive abilities. And he also fought for a long time lot of guy's that weren't in his league
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R U INCLUDING YOUR Favorite Fighter, Ruiz, Along w/those "Guys that Weren't in his League" ????...Ruiz Hit Roy FLUSH Probably 3-4 Times...VERY EARLY in the 1st Round, he Caught Roy w/a Hook that Roy DIDN'T See...

The Bottom Line is, Roy Jones (A Natural SuperMIDDLE) Wiped his Ass w/Top 10, RING Magazine Rated Lightheavy's for Nearly a DECADE...w/the Exception of the Griffin Fight, Roy was the SMALLER Guy just about EVERY Time...& Griffin was Much THICKER than Roy, Despite the Discrepancy in Height...

REED

loadedgloves · May 25, 2011

addressing some recent posts in this thread -

IMO Jones' chin sucks now because it's been "cracked." It was cracked by Tarver in the 2nd fight, and yes, that was a ridiculous shot Tarver hit him with. How many light heavies not named Matthew Saad could've taken that shot and not gone down, or even gotten up from it?

Azazel · May 25, 2011

REEDsART said: ↑

R U INCLUDING YOUR Favorite Fighter, Ruiz, Along w/those "Guys that Weren't in his League" ????...Ruiz Hit Roy FLUSH Probably 3-4 Times...VERY EARLY in the 1st Round, he Caught Roy w/a Hook that Roy DIDN'T See...

The Bottom Line is, Roy Jones (A Natural SuperMIDDLE) Wiped his Ass w/Top 10, RING Magazine Rated Lightheavy's for Nearly a DECADE...w/the Exception of the Griffin Fight, Roy was the SMALLER Guy just about EVERY Time...& Griffin was Much THICKER than Roy, Despite the Discrepancy in Height...

REED
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Of course I'm including Ruiz ( who I felt fought an horrible fight, but that's for another day ). Ruiz was an tough overachiever, Jones, one of the most amazing talent who ever fought in boxing. But, because of the weight difference ( even thought Ruiz was a natural cruiser ), it was an amazing feat. these were the kind of fights that Jones needed to pursue constantly. The Hops rematch when it was revelant, a fight with Calzaghe would have been neat too. so would have a fight with Jirov at Cruiser and many others too. Sure, it's not all Jones fought that he didn't fougt any of thses guy when it mattered, but he wasted a lot of his career fighting guy,s who should't have been in the same ring as him.

mexican wedding shirt · May 25, 2011

It's beyond argument that Jones is one of the most talented fighters ever.

But although Ramone is an obvious Roy hater, he does kind of have a point.

Despite how other worldly Roy looked, it's difficult to know just how good he was in his prime, considering who he fought.

Easily his second best win after Ruiz. He beat Hopkins clearly, and green or not, that's a great win.

Toney is another very good win, but I feel was kind of tailor made for Roy. Just an awful style matchup for James.

It would have been good to see him face more elite opposition at 168 and 175 to determine just how good he was.

Not necessarily Jones's fault of course, it's just the divisions at the time, how many great fighters they have.

I think Jones would have absolutely destroyed Mikkelboofski by the way, and to the main point of the thread, I think a prime Roy's chin was pretty average. Certainly not glass. Everyone gets hit flush, including Floyd.

REEDsART · May 25, 2011

Azazel said: ↑

Of course I'm including Ruiz ( who I felt fought an horrible fight, but that's for another day ). Ruiz was an tough overachiever, Jones, one of the most amazing talent who ever fought in boxing. But, because of the weight difference ( even thought Ruiz was a natural cruiser ), it was an amazing feat. these were the kind of fights that Jones needed to pursue constantly. The Hops rematch when it was revelant, a fight with Calzaghe would have been neat too. so would have a fight with Jirov at Cruiser and many others too. Sure, it's not all Jones fought that he didn't fougt any of thses guy when it mattered, but he wasted a lot of his career fighting guy,s who should't have been in the same ring as him.
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Hops & Calzaghe Deserve MORE of the Blame for those Fights NOT Happening, than Roy Does...Roy Deserves 100% of the Blame for the Jirov Fight Not Happening, However...

Speaking of Jirov, if Ruiz was INDEED a "Natural Crusier", then WHAT would Jirov have Done DIFFERENTLY to Roy than Ruiz Managed to???...Not Much, in REED's Opinion...Ruiz was MADE to Fight a "Horrible Fight" by Roy Jones, Dude...U CAN'T Come on Here PARADING John Ruiz Around, then CRITICIZE or MINIMIZE what Roy Jones did by MOVING UP in Weight & SCHOOLING him...

Roy Jones LITERALLY Fought NATHAN BUT RING Magazine's Top 10 Rated Lightheavy's for 10 Nearly 10 YEARS...A Natural SUPER MIDDLE Dominated a Division of BIGGER Men for Nearly 10 Years...

It's SAD how Roy's Talent is STILL Being Held AGAINST him...Moreso than ANY Fighter in Boxing History, in Fact...Look @ what Roy Actually DID for a Change, Instead of Harping on what he DIDN'T Do...EVERY Fighter has a Laundry List of Things they DIDN'T Do...

REED:hammert:

REEDsART · May 25, 2011

mexican wedding shirt said: ↑

It's beyond argument that Jones is one of the most talented fighters ever.

But although Ramone is an obvious Roy hater, he does kind of have a point.

Despite how other worldly Roy looked, it's difficult to know just how good he was in his prime, considering who he fought.

Easily his second best win after Ruiz. He beat Hopkins clearly, and green or not, that's a great win.

Toney is another very good win, but I feel was kind of tailor made for Roy. Just an awful style matchup for James.

It would have been good to see him face more elite opposition at 168 and 175 to determine just how good he was.

Not necessarily Jones's fault of course, it's just the divisions at the time, how many great fighters they have.

I think Jones would have absolutely destroyed Mikkelboofski by the way, and to the main point of the thread, I think a prime Roy's chin was pretty average. Certainly not glass. Everyone gets hit flush, including Floyd.
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Roy Jones' Resume is BETTER than he's Given Credit For...NO, it's Not Great but it's NOT as Thin as Some Suggest, Either...For Instance, Compare how MichalSHITski Fared Against Guys like Gonzalez, Hall, Harmon or Griffin, Compared to How Roy Fared???...

Yet those Guys R NEVER Mentioned as "Tough" Guys that Roy Fought, Despite ALL Being Top 10 Rated Guys for a FEW Years...Put it THIS Way, Roy Jones Beat a BETTER Crop of Lightheavy's than Bob Foster OR Billy Conn Did...

REED:hammert:

Destruction and Mayhem · May 25, 2011

loadedgloves said: ↑

addressing some recent posts in this thread -

IMO Jones' chin sucks now because it's been "cracked." It was cracked by Tarver in the 2nd fight, and yes, that was a ridiculous shot Tarver hit him with. How many light heavies not named Matthew Saad could've taken that shot and not gone down, or even gotten up from it?
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Hopkins would have.

REEDsART · May 25, 2011

Destruction and Mayhem said: ↑

Hopkins would have.
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Huh???...

Hopkins was FELLED TWICE by Pascal of All People, in the 1st Fight...Tarver's a BETTER Puncher than Pascal was, he just Never CAUGHT Bernard as FLUSHLY as he Caught Roy...

REED:hammert:

Destruction and Mayhem · May 25, 2011

REEDsART said: ↑

Huh???...

Hopkins was FELLED TWICE by Pascal of All People, in the 1st Fight...Tarver's a BETTER Puncher than Pascal was, he just Never CAUGHT Bernard as FLUSHLY as he Caught Roy...

REED:hammert:
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Those were "dodgy" knockdowns. Come on now.

REEDsART · May 25, 2011

Destruction and Mayhem said: ↑

Those were "dodgy" knockdowns. Come on now.
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1 was Dodgy...The Other WASN'T...Bernard was Never Genuinely HURT or on the Verge of Being STOPPED, but 1 of the 2 Knockdowns was LEGIT...

The POINT is, Tarver Caught Roy w/an EXQUISITE Shot that Roy DIDN'T See Coming...If Bernard is Hit w/that SAME Shot, his Ass TASTES the Canvas...Like Roy, Bernard would have Likely Flirted w/BEATING the Count OR Perhaps he WOULD have Beaten the Count...to Suggest Bernard TAKES that Shot w/Little to NO Fuss is Ridiculous...

REED:mj:

mexican wedding shirt · May 26, 2011

REEDsART said: ↑

Roy Jones' Resume is BETTER than he's Given Credit For...NO, it's Not Great but it's NOT as Thin as Some Suggest, Either...For Instance, Compare how MichalSHITski Fared Against Guys like Gonzalez, Hall, Harmon or Griffin, Compared to How Roy Fared???...

Yet those Guys R NEVER Mentioned as "Tough" Guys that Roy Fought, Despite ALL Being Top 10 Rated Guys for a FEW Years...Put it THIS Way, Roy Jones Beat a BETTER Crop of Lightheavy's than Bob Foster OR Billy Conn Did...

REED:hammert:
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Don't get me wrong, I don't actually agree with Ramone, it's just that I see his point to an extent.

Compared to other all time elite fighters, Roy fought a LOT of scrubs.

However, I actually think his resume is better than Floyd's for example.

Hopkins, Toney, and Ruiz are better than any of Floyd's wins.

Joe King · May 26, 2011

Destruction and Mayhem said: ↑

Hopkins would have.
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Cmon now. The Tarver KO punch was a beautiful punch and it PAINS me to say that.

Full extension, turned over while the opponent moved right into it. I don't think I have seen a picture perfect KO punch like that EVER.

AND ROY STILL GOT UP.

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Roy Jones Jr. Was his chin always suspect?

Ramonza Soliloquies "Twinkle Toes" McJack

Pascals Wager Undisputed Champion

Punk "Twinkle Toes" McJack Staff Member

Ramonza Soliloquies "Twinkle Toes" McJack

Ramonza Soliloquies "Twinkle Toes" McJack

Pascals Wager Undisputed Champion

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Roy Jones Jr. Was his chin always suspect?

Ramonza Soliloquies "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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Ramonza Soliloquies "Twinkle Toes" McJack

Ramonza Soliloquies "Twinkle Toes" McJack

Pascals Wager Undisputed Champion

The Genius DEMONRY!!

Pascals Wager Undisputed Champion

Hex-One "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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Ramonza Soliloquies "Twinkle Toes" McJack

REEDsART MATCHMAKER

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Azazel "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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