If the Ruiz fight never happened...

Reduce calorie count and increase calorie output and your weight will drop, regardless of how lean you are or aren't. Losing muscle, especially muscle that has been put on quickly, that may very well have been put on with the assistance of AAS, and that was put on at the age of 35, is all too easy. Well, not "easy," and DEFINITELY not "healthy" - but it will come off.

 

Though Lennox had Lineal Rights to the Title, a Lennox vs. Roy Bout would've Been a CIRCUS or "Parlour Trick", if U Will...Roy Either RUNS for his Life in an Extremely Boring Affair OR Lennox FOLDS him w/the 1st SOLID Left Jab or Right Hand that he Lands...

Like it or Not, Ruiz was a Top 5 Heavyweight AND he Held A Heavyweight Title...Not THE Heavyweight Title, but A Heavyweight Title...He Also had Youth, Size, Strength, Height & Weight on Roy (33lbs on the Scale, 25 or More IN the Ring)...Moreso, the Boxing Media was Literally SPLIT Down the Middle w/their Predictions...

It WAS a SINCERE Attempt @ History....



REED

 

The SORRY Thing about You is that Even WHEN U Went Out on a Limb & PREDICTED Certain Guys to BEAT Roy, U NEVER EVER Gave him the SLIGHTEST Bit of Credit for it...

Instead of Tipping your Hat to Roy for SHITTING on YOUR WHOlio Gonzalez Prediction, U CLAIMED to have Predicted him Facetiously...Then, when Glen Johnson (Who's NOT All that Different from Gonzalez, Stylistically) Beats Roy, U Act as if he RE-Invented the Wheel or Something...

It "Only" Took U 15-16 YEARS to Finally B "Right" about Roy Jones, Doub...

REED

 

lewis wanted no part of ruiz, which is why he vacated the wba title. i'm sure lewis knew he would've beaten him and thought it was a waste of time, but that's still a duck job if you ask me. he also did the same vs. byrd when he vacated his ibf belt.

 

A different fighter? Don't you think it's more likely that he endured strictly temprorary consequences from moving up to heavyweight and then back down again?

People talk about it as if he bulked up to 225 and then shed 50 pounds. I don't remember exactly, but I'm pretty positive RJJ didn't weigh in for the Ruiz fight anywhere above 200. You think the addition and subsequent shedding of 25 pounds of muscle would have had consequences that persisted for years and years?

 

again, if you look at the Roy Jones who fought Tarver and Johnson and say to yourself "yup, he looks every bit as formidable as the guy who ruled the division" then I can only assume you don't see very well

 

TLC, to answer your question, you'll start to lose muscle after you've lost most of the fat.

Obviously not very pleasant.

 

Total bull-shit. Sharpen your eyes REED. These two fighters are very different. And when you take into account Johnson's performance the night he whipped RJJ round after round, the differences were even more pronounced.

For you to say that Gonzalez and Johnson are not all that different stylistically says to me that you're missing a lot when you watch boxing.

And besides that, styles aren't the only consideration here. Johnson, unlike Gonzalez, did not allow himself to be intimidated by RJJ's speed. He was happy to trade with him. He stayed in there at mid-distance and used his jab consistently. He threw in combination almost exclusively. How many fucking times do I have to go through this.

The tactics Johnson employed that night. His durability and determination. The distance at which he fought RJJ. His use of a short jab and his commitment to the body. His combination punching. His willingness to trade with RJJ. The combination of these things, as applied by Johnson the evening he beat him pillar to post, would've busted up any version of RJJ there ever was.

 

If that's your conclusion, then I can only assume that you judge fighter's performances in a vacuum, giving zero consideration to the opponent.

 

I can fathom thinking that way if you didn't follow boxing when Lewis fought Grant instead of Ruiz.

 

Who in Gods name doesnt hold a belt in modern boxing? The point is Jones wanted everyone to say he won titles from Middle to Heavy, not that he beat a, "top-5 Heavy," yet, by your own admission, that is what he did --- herego, parlour trick.

 

Uuuuh, Rocky Juarez, Andrew Golota, Oba Carr, Jose Luis Lopez, etc???...

Roy Was Only Undisputed @ Lightheavy....@ Every Other Weight, he Held A Title...John Ruiz Won & Defended the WBA HEAVYWEIGHT Championship of the WORLD 2x, Before Losing it to Roy...Then Ruiz Got it Back & Defended 2-3 MORE Times...

Like it Or Not, Roy Jones was A Heavyweight Champion...Not THE Champion, but A Champion...



REED:dancingBaby:

 

Youll have to sell that one to a non-Boxing fan, REED. Everyone here knows better. What I find surprising is that as a fan of his, you seem to hold him to a lower standard than I do, instead of a higher one. Personally, Im just the opposite with my favourites. Maybe thats a distinction between fan and groupie?

 

i predicted on planetroy a KO in round two for tarver (in the first fight) and was ridiculed big time. never really got my online props after the rematch...

 

Actually, YOU'RE a WORD of MOUTH or MAGAZINE Boxing Fan...If Enough Old Fart, Stogie Smoking Boxing Writers TELL You that ________ (Insert Pre Historic, Underhanded Guard Using, Black & White Film Era Fighter du'Jour HERE) was the Greatest Thing Since the Invention of the Mouthpiece, U AUTOMATICALLY BELIEVE it...

U Live in a FANTASY World where Harry Greb HAS to B the Greatest & it's READILY ACCEPTED by U, Even while Admittedly NEVER EVER Seeing him Fight...Enjoy your All Expense Paid Vacation to DREAM Land, Ramonza...REED's Much More Comfortable in REALITY...



REED

 

Sorry Doub, but your HISTORY PRECEDES U...U Have a Borderline FETISH for the MINIMALIST Approach to Prizefighting, but THEN the PSUEDO Keen Eye BULLSHIT Artist that Resides within Gets the BETTER Of U...

On this Very Messageboard, U've Tried to Portray Antonio Margarita AND Librado Andrade as Anything OTHER than the HUMAN SPONGES that they Were...U've Acctually Suggested that there was "Subtle Science" to the Way they Perpetually Found their Faces Attached to the End of their Opponents Gloves...

& NOW U're Doing Likewise w/Glen Johnson...There was NATHAN Special about what Glen Johnson was Doing...He's a Basic, No Frills, In your Face, TOUGH GUY Fighter...Even he would Probably LAUGH @ the "Depth" U're MISTAKENLY Seeing in his Approach...



REED

 

In reality? You talk in the third person, how much farther removed from reality can one be?

You may not like my take on certain fighters, but at least its apparent Ive done my homework over the years. The fact that you would look at Charles' resume and ask why it need be considered better than Jones' tells all. You couldnt tell me Charlie Burley from John Henry Lewis, could you, REED?

 

For the 2nd Time, REED NEVER Insinuated that Roy's Resume was Superior to Charles'...REED Suggested that Roy ACCOMPLISHED More than Charles...

BIG Difference...



REED

 

So how in God's name could a fighter as "great" as RJJ not only be knocked out byJohnson, but also lose every round to him?

Compromised or not, his brilliant boxing skills should've no doubt been too much for the crude Johnson, no? At least leading up to the knock-out, which is the only portion of that fight that can be reasonably attributed to RJJ's recent defeat to Tarver.

And just to back up a bit, there was and continues to be some genuine artistry and skill at work when it comes to Margarito's and Andrade's offense.

 

There's no BIG difference. There's no difference at all. You're just wrong.

I love watching REED squirm and twist his words around, all because his combative approach to posting means that he can never be wrong, because being wrong, for REED, is like losing a fight. And we all know that if we could've covered up the fights we lost with double-talk and nuance, that if we could somehow convince those looking on as we got our asses kicked they hadn't actually witnessed what they'd just seen with their very own eyes, that we certainly would've done so.

 

Of course theres no difference, because a fïghters accomplishments are a function of who they actually beat, not how many trinkets they collected.

 

WOW!!!...

U're the Guy that PICKED WHOlio Gonzalez to BEAT Roy Jones, yet To this Very Day, U've NEVER EVER Given him CREDIT for that Win...On MORE than 1 Occasion, U've Described the Likes of Margarita & Andrade as "Subtle Scientists", Defensively...Just a Couple Posts Ago, U Took your Idiocy a Step Fuuuuuurther by Calling them "Artists", Offensively, yet You have the Fucking TEMERITY to Accuse REED of "Double Talk & Nuance"???...



REED:scratcher:

 

Can you explain that difference?

 

It's NOT Like Roy just "Picked Up Trinkets", as Ramonza is FOOLISHLY Saying...The ONLY Weight Class he Can B Accused of Doing that @ is Heavyweight...

@ 160, Roy BEAT Bernard Hopkins (the Man Cosidered THE BEST Middleweight of the 90's AND the 00's), for a Middleweight Title...@ 168, Roy Beat James Toney (Regarded as THE BEST Supermiddle in the World @ the Time AND Rated No Worse than # 2 Lb for Lb) for a Supermiddle Title...@ Roy was UNDISPUTED @ 175....

Ezzard Charles MIGHT have Been the Best Middleweight &/or Lightheavy EVER, but he NEVER EVER Won Belts @ those Weights (For Whatever Reason)...Even if U DISCOUNT Roy's Heavyweight Title, he's Still Got 2 MORE Weight Classes than Charles, that he WON LEGITIMATE Titles @...Those R ACCOMPLISHMENTS...

Even in an Era where Titles R APLENTY, U HAVE to Weigh Actual Title Fights HEAVIER than Non-Title Fights, when Assessing ACCOMPLISHMENTS...



REED

 

Oh, my.

Someone else pick that one apart.

 

I don't think you can't really apply that logic both ways (ie correctly valuing victories over just picking up titles in Roy's case, then holding Charles being denied a title shot against him).

On the standard and quality of victories, which ultimately is what's boxing's about, I really don't think there's any competition. Genuinely. Think the Hopkins and Toney wins but if he'd beaten both men 2, 3, 4, 5 times and beaten another 4 or 5 men on that level, each 2, 3, 4 times.

The heavyweight issue I'll leave aside because heavyweights are just so much bigger than they were then, but it'd be equivalent to roy moving up to a very strong cruiserweight division and scoring a string of impressive wins. Wallcot might be equivalent to a Cruiserweight Holyfield for instance & an old Louis to say Spinks' win over Holmes.

There's the issue of Charles losing a couple of fights at Middleweight, but it would appear from the fact he was unbeaten upon moving to 175 (a robbery against heavyweight Ray aside (avenged by KO)) for so long that he was very tight at the weight. 42-0 between moving to 175 and the 3rd Walcott fight and I genuinely think he faced the greatest opposition of any fighter in history through that.

The string of losses late in his career are basically write offs just like everything after the first Tarver fight is for Roy in my book.

IMHO, Ezzard Charles is the greatest fighter of all time. Just my take on what he did.

 

What's the BIGGEST Difference btwn Roberto Duran & Muhammad Ali???...Duran Won MORE World Titles, Thereby ACCOMPLISHING More...Is the Concept THAT Difficult to Grasp???



REED

 

Charles is in wth a shot at having perhaps the single greatest CV in history, but oh no, he didnt win a belt in the non-existent weightclass of SMW, or win the actual LHW belt (never mind he whipped on Moore, who ruled 175 for ten yrs, how many times?) You are in la-la land. Charles was not a belt-holder at 175, "for whatever reason." I love it. Dont you mean to say you dont know the reason?

BTW, in one thread you state Jones' fight with Ruiz was a sincere attempt at history. Here, its an acknowledged trinket hunt. Which is it, just to clarify?

 

NATHAN is as Easily "Picked Apart" as Your INCESSANT NUTHUGGERY of Fighter's U've Admittedly NEVER EVER Seen Fight, Dude...Who Needs VIDEOTAPE when U've Got Bert Sugar, Right???...No Sense Having an Opinion when U've Got the Ol Fogey w/a Stogie...

The Funny Thing is, U THINK It Makes U Look "Cool", but in Actuality U're just a Misguided PSUEDO "Historian", Homey...Fightbeat ISN'T Impressed...




REED

 

Bring it DOWN a Few Pegs, Ramonza...U're NOT the Only Guy on Fightbeat that's SEEN Black & White Footage, HEARD an Authentic Radio Broadcast of a Fight OR Read a Fleischer Article....

For the Sake of YOUR Perception of 'Trinkets', REED Placed Roy's Heavweight Title by the Wayside to Illustrate that he Really COULDN'T have Taken a More Difficult Route to Garnering Belts @ 160, 168 & 175...




REED