Mayweather Jr. vs Ortiz September 17

:giggle:

Ok, it's official. Nothing further to discuss with this guy on this topic.

 

Oh Oh, I know the answer. Baldomir has a "win" over Clottey.

 

Margarito was not irrelevant. Say it with me. Embrace it, reality is great.

 

OK Sly, which win is more impressive?

Are you going to go with his win over JUNIOR WW Hatton after Hatton looked like shit against ALL TIME WORLD BEATER LUIS COLLAZO?

Or will you go with his win over Shane Mosley? A near 40 year old Shane Mosley who ALL TIME WORLD BEATER SERGIO MORA drew with just 4 months later?

 

What you say all sounds clever but Clottey LOST his previous fight (against Cotto) before facing Pacquiao! CLottey had already been beaten by Margarito before that.

How Mosley looked AFTER facing Floyd is irrelevant (*). But how he looked in his previous fight IS relevant. In the previous fight he wiped the floor with Margarito a guy that had beaten both Cotto and Clottey.

* Should we judge the Vargas that Tito fought based upon how he looked AFTER facing Tito or how he looked before facing Tito?

Mosley is a better win than Clottey. Judah is a better win than Clottey. Hatton (undefeated top 5 P4Pder, confident version) is a better win than Clottey.

Be reasonable...

 

Wait, are you saying that Mayweather gave Mosley some kind of beating that would render him less of a fighter when he faced Mora just 4 months later?

You are seriously going to compare the beating that Trinidad gave to Vargas to the "beating" that Mayweather gave to Mosley?

You are also going to assert that a win over Judah is better than a win over Clottey? Did you miss the fight where Clottey beat Judah for the IBF WW title?

Lastly, a win over Hatton at WW is better than a win over a career WW in Clottey? You're right, Hatton was undefeated at WW. He was 1-0 with a highly dubious win over Luis Collazo.

I love Hatton, was a HUGE fan of Hatton, but beating the guy at WW is nothing compared to beating a genuine legit WW like Clottey.

 

I can concede the Judah point... ::

But Mosley and Hatton were better wins no doubt.

To address your Mosley point (quite easily too)

A psychological battering is as damaging as a physical battering (plus Floyd battered him physcially too...make no mistake). Floyd handled Shane with ease. he even beat him at his own game. Won every single rond other than the 2nd and even in the 2nd round resumed his attack and agression and had Shane backing off even after being hurt. So yes, talking about how Mosley fought AFTER that fight is irrelevant.


To address he Hatton point (quite easily as well).

How does Hatton being a career JWW diminsh the win? Since when does it work that way? Is Hagler's win over the career Lightweight (MUCh more significant different in weight...25 pounds) Duran less significant than Hopkins' win over career middleweight Joppy? get the fuck outta here with that bogus logic!!

Hatton was undefeated, top 5 p4pder, had beaten guys like Tszyu and Castillo just 7 pounds lighter..AND was a "career" bigger man than Floyd.

Secondly, the collazo fight means nothing. Could have just been an off night for Hatton. If Hatton had 3 or 4 WW fights and looked bad in all of them you'd have a point but a one off means jack shit. Duran lost to Kirkland Laing.

 

Oh Jesus Sly

Really? We're comparing Hatton's career at WW to Duran's at MW now? Really? I think that might even be worse than your comparison of the "beating" that Mayweather gave to "Mosley" to the beating that Trinidad gave to Vargas.

You are really, really reaching now.

"A psychological battering"? I almost spit out my drink. You really think a guy who has been fighting all his life such as Mosley is that weak mentally that a loss to Mayweather equates to a "psychological battering". A battering so bad that he is unable to rebound against... wait for it... ...Sergio Mora?

You're a funny guy.

 

Margarito wasn't irrelevant. Let's all say it together. Facts are facts.

 

Strawman! :Ramonza:

I didn't compared Hatton's WW career with Duran's MW....but up until facing Hagler Duran had a sum total of ZERO Middleweight fights! ZERO. ZILCH. NADA. Then immediately after than fight got KTFO in just 2 rounds by Hearns. So using your logic, Duran was a lesser opponent than a career Middleweight in Joppy. You HAVE to own that position my friend or admit your logic for picking Clottey over hatton is faulty.

Yes, Floyd's win over Shane could indeed hurt Shane's psyche..as the supposed smaller, weaker man kept outmuscling and beating Shane at the physical game and winning ever second of every round. It was a one sided beating! The confidence that Shane had after beating up Margarito evaporated after the Floyd fight.

 

Irrelevant. Baldomir was "the champ" when Floyd moved up. Judah was "the champ" just prior to that. Marg was just the #1 contender at best. Floyd fought the champs first...and once you have Gold you don't go back for Tin...instead you move on to Diamonds (De La Hoya at 154lbs).

 

I'm not even sure what you're arguing or what point you're trying to make anymore Sly.

Duran proved he could handle MW. You do realize he had like 20-30 fights at 160 and above after Hagler right? Hatton NEVER proved he could handle WW. Not before fighting Mayweather. Not after fighting Mayweather. Yet a victory over Hatton at WW is better than a victory over a CAREER WW and a SOLID one at that in Clottey?

Are you happy with the direction that Mayweather's career has gone post-Castillo Sly? Do you feel that he is making a strong effort to face the challenges that are out there and to prove his greatness?

 

Sly, do you think that choosing to fight Baldomir over Margarito proves that Mayweather is about legacy and greatness?

Do you think he chose the tougher path to a WW title by facing Baldomir (Margarito was the WBO champion)?

Do you think that fighting the lineal champion is more important than fighting the recognized number 1 guy in the division?

 

IRRELEVANT.

Hatton didn't continue his Welterweight career after Floyd so we'd never know...but that aside, it doesn't matter what Duran did after Hagler as an old fat man that couldn't make Welter/jn mid anymore...at the time the fight was his first at 160 and he would get KTFO just after that fight as well.

You know damned well what I'm arguing..don't pretend ignorance.

 

You really have no idea how ridiculous you sound. The top guys in any given division are never irrelevant. That is just plain retarded.

 

It's a case by case basis as I've said before. in this particular case, fighting Judah and Baldomir made more sense than fighting Margarito. If he didn't fight Judah and Baldy people would have always said that he never won a legitimate belt in the WW division and never fought the champ. In fact YOU would have said that very same fucking thing. He couldn't have won either way with guys like you....but he wisely chose the lesser of the evils.

 

Do you think that Hatton moving back to 140 immediately after the Collazo fight and again back to 140 immediately after the Mayweather fight tells us anything about how he felt at WW Sly?

Do you think if Hatton was comfortable at WW or felt effective at WW that he would've moved back to JWW immediately afterwards?

Hatton had 3 fights after Mayweather. All at JWW. And then he retired. Does this mean that it is possible that he could have had a decent career at WW and that we should reserve judgement on his abilities at WW?

 

Give it up, Sly will just repeat the same shit over and over and never once consider your many valid point. It's futile.

 

Irrelevant.

Hatton was a top 5 P4P undefeated guy, fought Floyd and felt he wasn't a WW as a result of that beating. Floyd is not the first guy to fight a top P4P guy moving up and beat him up...but he is the first guy to not get credit for doing it.

 

What valid points? ::

I debunked the Floyd ducking Cotto at 147 myth. Y'all wont admit it.

I debunked the Williams Myth.

I debunked the Margarito Myth. Now the Margarito myth is the only one where y'all have even a part of a leg to stand on, but even then it's a very weak case since Baldi and Judah held the legit belts and the linear titles.

 

Hey Sly, after the Hatton fight, in the post-fight interview, when Larry Merchant asked Mayweather if he would now fight Cotto, who at the time was coming off a win over Mosley, and Mayweather responded "I won't let boxing retire me, I am going to retire from boxing"... how did that make you feel?

 

That's a different issue and I'll address that..AFTER you admit that when Floyd moved up to WW...Cotto,Williams and Margarito were not as relevant at the time as the fights he did take.

 

I'll answer it now....but I still require an admission of idiocy from you. ::

I was disappointed. I would have loved to have seen Floyd whup Cotto. But I also remembered at the time that after fighting oscar, Floyd RETIRED!! After beating the Cash Cow at his 5th weight class he felt no need to continue. He only came back for Hatton, because Hatton called him out calling him a boring fighter bringing back memories of Larry Merchant saying that Floyd's last two fights were boring.

Floyd wasn't motivated for Cotto at that time, but no way was he scared of him. if Floyd was scared of teh likes of Cotto he sure as hell wouldn't have fought guys like Corrales and Castillo at the lower weights (Or De La Hoya at 154lbs). Think motherfucker, think!!!!

 

I didn't say anything about Cotto in this thread. I just want you to admit that during the time the fight was offered to Floyd, Margarito would have been a worthy opponent. Which is the truth. Damn near evey fan would have much rather seen Floyd fight Margarito. I was one of them.

 

Ok ZED. So you, for one, admit the Cotto/Williams stuff is bullshit? If so I respect that.

As for Margarito...

YES he would have been a worthy opponent, I've never said otherwise, But Baldomir, Judah and Oscar was more important/relevant/pertinent business to take care of first.

Retiring after fighting Oscar is nothing to be ashamed of..it's not like Floyd retired at age 25

 

I think you have made me see the light Sly.

Mayweather didn't duck Cotto. He just needed some time off so he retired for 2 years until he felt better and then he gave us fans a real treat by fighting Marquez.

He didn't duck Margarito. He just faced Baldomir instead which was a more prestigious win and earned Money May $1 more for food for his kids.

He didn't duck Williams. He just didn't know who Williams was so he how could he have pursued a fight with someone he didn't know?

He isn't ducking Pacquiao. Pacquiao is on some unknown illegal drug. If Mayweather fought him then it would be an eye sore for the sport that Mayweather respects so much.

How could I have been so blind?

 

After two years layoff at Floyd's age, Marquez was a good warm up for the big names. Put it this way..Marquez was no mere warm up for Pacquiao. Floyd didn't duck Cotto anymore than Ray Leonard ducked Nunn or Toney or any of those guys when he returned after beating old man Hagler. Leonard came back for Hagler only...and Floyd came back for Hatton.

Not comparing Hatton to Hagler..as you'll no doubt start chanting....but saying that both men had retired and only came back for a specific purpose.

Baldy was indeed the more important fight for Floyd on the way to securing the 154lbs title. He wanted teh legit titles in 5 divisions. Fight for the lightly regarded WBO title wouldn't have given him that. Is that hard to understand?

Williams wasn't ducked whatsoever.

As for Pacquiao...Floyd signed the fight then it didn't materialize. I'm as disappointed as you and Pacquiao's camp is as much to blame for the initial fight not happening.

Now, stop being a cunt.

 

:Steve-Dave/MMA:

 

That's the only sentence in my post you care to respond too?

 

Yes.

Debating with you is like stealing candy from a baby.

I was having a bit of fun with this at first, but now it's just grown boring. Your arguments are honestly very, very bad Sly. Please tell me you aren't a lawyer or in any type of position where you have to present a solid case for anything of importance?