Haye vs. Wladimir...

I guess you didn't know that Wlad had very good excuses for his losses, that makes up for everything.

You are correct about the fact that Wlad has never moved up even one division. I too see that being pretty embarrassing for him

 

Fought scared.

When Floyd fought Hatton, he, Floyd, had all the advantages. Yet when Hatton finally did get inside, what did Floyd do? He put his forearm across his neck. He leaned through the ropes and turned his back. He did what he had to do to negate Hatton.

Sauce for the Goose is sauce for the Gander. Wlad was finished, finished, if the lost that fight. He did what he had to do. He also threw a lot of clean shots in that fight and he finished stronger, even going so far to ignore Manny's instructions in the final round.

Steward explicitly told Wlad that he had the fight won and to only "bip-bip-bip" in the 12th.

Instead, Wlad, the coward, went out looking to land big, which he did, sealing the deal.

 

Duran has already lost to one roid-freak. You can hear loadedgloves doing the commentary here. At 2:20 he claims Duran beat Paz, twice. This is pure nuthuggery.

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You don't have to quit to be scared. He fought like he was terrified of Peter.

Also, falling down every time your opponent is near you is kind of indicative of being scared as well.

Irish, yeah, he threw big shots in the 12th when Peter had about as much stamina left as Wlad did in the 11th against Ross Purrity.

Since the Brewster and Sanders fights, Wlad jabs and grabs against guys who can't even punch. He is an extremely boring, safety-first fighter, and you guys are acting like he's the second coming of Matthew Saad Muhammad.

The Floyd/Hatton comparison is dumb, Hatton was one of the dirtiest and roughest fighters around during his prime. Floyd fought him willingly on the inside and beat Hatton at his own game. Not like he couldn't have fought from the outside if he'd wanted to, as he showed from the 7th round or so onward when he was landing at will on Hatton and laughing while he did it.

If Floyd ever had a performance as terrible as Wlad's against Sam Peter's, regardless of whether he won or lost, the forums would've literally been in an uproar over it. Nothing else would've been discussed for weeks.

edit: When Floyd fought an undefeated, murderous puncher in Diego Corrales - who, by the way, was a billion times better than Sam Peter - he kicked the shit out of him in one-sided fashion. Watch that fight and then watch the Peter/Wlad fight and then tell me if you still think there's any comparison to be made.

 

He doesn't fight as confidently in the ring though. That's the point. No matter how hard or fearless Wlad tries to come across, he fights a very cautious style. Go watch Ibragimov/Wlad again and look at how Wlad is not willing to take even a remote chance at the possibility that his chin gets tagged. It made for the sh*ttest heavyweight title fight in many years. And what's funny is that Ibragimov was half Wlad's size. LOL!

 

Fraud fought a Hatton who was out of his best weight class. Did you forget that? Hatton has zero power at 147. Collazo proved Hatton can't fight at 147.
Also, Fraud/Baldomir was the sh*ttest fight in history. People left for the exits in the 8th and 9th. Fraud/DLH followed up as the sh*ttest "SuperFight" ever! The worst fights in history featured Fraud F*ckweather!

 

Yup. Good excuses for his losses in his best division, in his prime, against overweight C-/D level journeymen.

Yes, which I pointed out to illustrate one of the many reasons why your comparison is retarded.

I would say this is the dumbest thing you've ever said, but then you did compare Duran to John Ruiz at one point..

 

So he fought a man he was terrified of? The epitome of cowardice.

He was down three times over two fights. For a man with a good understanding of physiology, you seem to grossly underestimate the effect of being bashed on the back of the head by an 18 stone Nigerian

Hold on a minute. He was sent out to steal the round. He tried to score a KO instead. Furthermore, it was Wlad who was down in the late rounds, not Peter. So you can't have it both ways.

He leans on them to wear them down. Thats Manny Steward, and it may yet prove his undoing. Furthermore, nobody tried to make the lad out to be Matthew Saad Muhammad and nobody said that he had not regressed in terms of the entertainment factor. Do you blame him? He was specifically made aware that his next loss was his last, and so he has done as much as he can to avoid losing.

Floyd cheated and had the referee in his pocket more than he did Hatton.

Its called the Baldomir Protocol.

Yeah, Peter wasn't weight-drained.

 

Not that I disagree, but the part in bold is wankery.

 

The way I look at it is simple: fans can't have their cake and eat it too. Everyone is wise after the fact. Pavlik couldn't handle movers, Sam Peter was shit, Lacy was shit, blah blah blah.

People pick up on after-the-fact "wisdoms" and not only do they act as if that its correct, they also act as if thats how they themselves felt all along.

Wlad was a dead man going into that fight. Then he wins, and Peter is Ergo a stiff.

 

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That's totally fair. I'm talking purely about the betting slip stuff.

 

Ah yes, it is just a way of saying prove to me that you felt then as you feel now. It is a bitch move and I first saw it being pulled by the man in my avatar, whose first name is, incidentally, Steve.:laugh11: Steve Bunce. I can't remember the scenario but if I can find it I will post it.

 

Steve :bears:

Cool.

I'd never be able to produce a betting slip, since I've only bet on boxing once... when I was in Vegas for a fight.

 

Same way he didn't rematch Brewster for 2-3 years...+Brewster having a fucked up eye...

 

Yeah, he was fighting Peter instead.

Brewster was busy tapping into a rich vein of success, taking on lucrative {for Don King, that is} soft-touches like Kali Meehan, Golota, Krasniqi {do you see a pattern here} before facing Mo Harris victim Sergey Lyakhovich, who was supposed to be merely the latest white stiff our Lamon gave a hiding too.

Its not like Lamon was clamouring for the fight either. Show me where Lamon was desperately demanding that he get the rematch? It's BS. He {or Don King} cashed in on fighting a stream of stiffs.

Ironically, Klitschko, between both Brewster fights, probably fought better fighters than Brewster did.

 

how would anyone be able to produce a betting slip? if they won then they cashed it in

 

This is invalid. Whether or not you thought Lacy was shit before the fight, the fight illustrated that he was, in fact, shit.

Having said that, it was fairly plain that Sam Peter was limited before the first fight, and EVERYONE thought the Wlad/Peter rematch was laughable.

 

If you do it online you should have a receipt one way or the other.

 

What was more laughable was Teddy Atlas forcing the original fight, Povetkin vs Wlad, to fall through.

 

I cant wait for this fight...Haye is so under Wlads skin its hilarious

 

Both looked uncomfortable to me. In Wlad's case, I think that had more to do with his weak English than anything.

 

The HBO production was shot before the Sky production, during which Haye declined to face Wladimir. :dunno:

 

Doesn't surprise me.

 

Even if you're not a Klitschko fan i have a hard time seeing why anybody would root for Haye.

Yeah the brothers can be (and usually are) boring.

Wlad has already been knocked out. It's not like wanting to see somebody lose the '0' to have them humbled. David Haye aint no "savior" to the heavyweight division either. If you want the Klitschko "era" to be over? Understandable. But with Haye?

As much as Klitschko is boring, Haye is annoying. A guy like Mayorga was at least entertaining with his bullshit.

Wlad was right about at least one thing and that is David Haye is a wannabe.

 

So far as the "British Fans" who support Haye, and the British Press who pump his agenda and who pump his chances, you need to understand a few things about recent British history and recent British social trends.

Klitschko's main sin is that not only is he not British, not only is he an Eastern-European {the most recent wave of migrants to the UK} but he is associated with Germany and is based in Germany and the fight is in Germany.

Make no mistake about it whatsoever:- The British, at a certain level, have what can only be described as one great big fat fucking bee in their collective bonnet when it comes to Germany and Germans.

Most of it stems from a broader sense of inferiority and a sense of injustice. The Brits won the war, but the Germans own Rolls Royce. And Rover. And Mini-Cooper. Bear in mind that the Spitfire was powered by a Rolls-Royce engine. Now built in Germany. The English beat the Germans in the World Cup Final in 1966, but the Germans have won every game ever since, bar one minor consolation in 2001 or whatever. The Brits invented English but the Germans speak it better than them etc. The Germans do immigration, welfare, integration, economics, etc, better than the Brits do.

And now, to cap it all off, these fuckers have the Heavyweight Championship to boot?? In a stadium? With tens of thousands of exceedingly well educated, well dressed people all behaving themselves and having a good time? Whilst the English host petty events frequented by sartorially-challenged mobsters and their gobby, not-so-naturally blonde molls, these Krauts are really putting on a show.

Well now. That won't stand.

Enter Haye.

And with Haye, enters the second part of the equation.

Everybody loves a bit of class. Everybody loves a bit of real glamour. Its why gangsters love to pose with Movie-Stars, the necessary corollary of how everybody loves a bit of danger, meaning the movie stars are only too happy to mix with the gangsters. Sinatra was a classic example.

There are men in the English press who hanker for the era of Cooper- when all men,and not just Cooper, knew how to dress, how to hold a drink, how to comport and conduct oneself public-wise. And their ladies knew likewise.

Guys like Steve Bunce, Colin Hart, Jeff Powell, Kevin Mitchell etc would all belong to that class of writer or journalist. It is of no small insult to them that they find themselves supporting a guy, and obliged, by convention to do so, against their better instincts, to support a guy who has, it seems, determined to make mugs of them at every twist and turn, with his outlandish behaviour and crass comments, his philandering, his lack of an education and, even worse, his lack of a desire for one.

Henry Cooper, in the weeks before his death, bemoaned Hayes behaviour. That carries a lot of weight. A lot of people would have still rowed in behind "Our 'Enry"

Haye doesn't even like England. He lives in Cyprus. He hates the British diet, the British weather, the way of life etc. And that's OK. But he then shows up and says he is doing it for England??

I think it upsets some of these people, and it is of course just my opinion, but they are upset that their best chance to get rid of this "German", to get one over on "those Germans", exists in the form of a particularly boorish, philandering mental-midget like Haye.

They are not even able to enjoy, however ephemerally, the notion that Haye will "save the division". That sweetener is now also absent, by way of Haye's own self-imposed career deadline. They cannot any longer sell that notion to the unsuspecting mob, that Haye's chav antics should be tolerated for the long-term betterment of the era.

It irks them further, therefore, that even if Haye wins, he becomes something of a dead-letter, considering not just his own imminent retirement, but also the persistent existence of at least one Klitschko, the one with the chin, and the WBC belt.

All-in-All, this doesn't make for a particularly happy bunch of campers.

And that's just the out-of-ring stuff.

Everything about Haye reeks of shortcut. He could have gone straight into the heavyweight division. Haye knew that to win a belt at Cruiser and translate it into attention was not only easier, but more valuable than the traditional route. He never took any risks, always carefully maintaining an image of a dangerous, talented fighter that was just itching to kick a lot of arse. He's been a pro since 2002 but only has 26 fights in 9 years. He made certain contractual propitiations to get the decision vs Valuev. His fight with Barrett was a desperately contrived affair which had been preceded, live on tv, by Haye declaring that he would never fight somebody of such low repute. Haye ended up giving away tickets on a 2-for-1 basis for that fight. Barrett, who had been sliced open and floored 5 times by Wlad in London 8 years previously, fell trying to get into the ring. He still had Haye down, but the knockdown was not called as such. He was also down against Ruiz, but again the knockdown was missed. He rabbit punched with frequency in both fights, and threw punches at both Ruiz and Barrett when they were done. The Harrison fight was a total farce, and it seems now to have been fixed into the bargain.

Ruiz, Barrett and Harrison had an average age of 38-39. Valuev has not fought since. Ruiz has not fought since. Harrison has not fought since. Barrett has fought twice since, drawing both fights.

This says a lot.

 

Haye knows what hes in for, Wlad looks like hes tired of his bullshit. Haye is cashing out in this fight.

 

I'm slightly interested in this fight, only for the sake of finding out which one of these bums is better. Both proved utterly incapable of competing with rejects from the 90-s ( being brutalized by the likes of Thompson, Purrity, and Sanders), but at the same time, thanks to these two, we know that boxing (unlike, say, track and field ) doesn't progress in the same manner as other sports.

 

::

Roy Jones Jr: "The Klitschkos Have Gotten Better, Over Time"

 

Because boxing isn't a sport. It's a business dominated by criminals and mobs. There's no system of any kind, all the commisions are run by criminals. Look at the WBA. They took a f*cking bribe for money and put Peter McNeely in their top 10 rankings as a way to legitimize him as a quality Tyson come-back opponent. What does that tell you about the integrity of boxing as a sport? It has none.
And most of the athletes who come into boxing are the ones who couldn't make it in other sports unless you're mexican. Ali, Frazier and Holyfield had more love for football than they did for boxing. Nobody wants a career of getting hit in the face for a living and ending up as a vegetable.