Haye vs. Wladimir...

the division would have been the same to me. not worth watching either way. though i realize your fetish for large men compels you to watch these crap matches

 

The only chance I give Haye is to come out like Mayorga vs Forrest...swinging for the fences. Wlad isn't a slugger and he's patient...too patient at times.

Haye has shit stamina and has to know if the fight goes seven or eight rounds it means he gets carved up. The guy is so damn sloppy it's ridiculous.

 

The only problem with that plan of action is that Haye is just as vulnerable as Wlad is.

Haye really should've fought Vitali instead. I can't understand the thinking behind going after Wlad first.

 

fixed

 

I would give him less chance against Vitali actually.
At least with Wlad, there's a chance that he may catch that chin.
Against Vitali, it wouldn't matter. Also, the height differential is more & Vitali fights tall better than Wlad does.

 

Haye would make Vitali look like the oaf he is. And Vitali doesn't have nearly as much of a chance of taking Haye out with a single shot, whereas Wlad is offensively very dangerous.

 

If Wlad loses to Haye, I will laugh and laugh.

Of course, if that does happen, I'm sure you'll have an arsenal of excuses ready to go, and shortly thereafter be creating Mythical Matchups where you see Haye demolishing prime Tyson, Lewis, etc.

So anyway, how do you see Wlad losing, if he does lose?

 

Why would you laugh and laugh? It's a f*cking boxing match. Either guy can get knocked the f*ck out.:: Whoever lands the big shot first. Wlad isn't invincible, never was. And Haye isn't exactly a midget. Dude's like 6'3 and much younger with less ring wear than Wlad.

 

I think it will matter. Vitali is a bleeder and he's going to be 40 in a few weeks and has a list of injuries he's dealt with throughout his career. He's not a young guy.

 

Just like you prepare yourself a way out by belittling Haye beforehand so that you won't have to give Klitshkos any credit whatsoever despite of what they do. You have obviously made up your mind about them already and you won't let details such as actual fight results put you off

 

You're a moron mate. First off, anyone ask, I have been as Anti-Pavlik as they come. Smelly Kelly, and all that. I had arguments here endlessly over who had the better resume, who would win, who had done more etc, Abraham vs Pavlik.

Now let's say I only "nuthugged" the Bros. as they are White. I am White. Its natural to magnate towards ones own.

I remember working the Special Olympics when they were in Ireland in 2003. Vitali vs Lewis was 1 week away and I was trying to take care of the Turkmenistan delegation. They showed up in Ireland with plastic bags containing their kit. And a headful of Klitschko hate. Sounds like you. Grubby dusty nomads who don't like Klit. Off with their Klits!!!

 

Never underestimate how hated the Klitschkos are. Its not because they are white, or even non-American, its more simple than that. A lot of people bet a lot of their reputational-ranches on these guys being dust a long time ago.

Max Kellerman was at it from 1999. Boxing Monthly got in on the act in 2000 with their infamous little piece after the Byrd vs Vitali fight. They had another go after the first Brewster fight. Fuck it, they had Danny Williams all lined up to beat the shit out of Vitali, big write up on the "explosiveness" of Danny Williams etc.

10 years is a long time to be waiting for your lofty predictions to ring true. The simple reality is that every guy who comes along and who might turn the trick has a lot of guys behind him, who don't really care for him, but who hope he can turn the trick. The perversity of the situation is thus clear. It would be facile to refer to it as "Black Hopes", again, it's simpler than that.

Klitschkos need sorting- them and their fancy fucking events and their two-headed domination and their longevity. Before too long it mutates and all manner of magical-thinking is being tacked on to an already false premise. 1980's pre-Tyson fighters all beat the Klitschkos. Klitschkos are bad for the division. Division is at its lowest ebb, ever. Basketball killed the Heavyweight Star. As their nonsense mounts, they become ever more aware of how daft they look and thus the need for somebody to get shut of them becomes more and more pressing.

 

Not necessarily. I know exactly what would be needed to get the job done and exactly what Wlad's flaws are. Specifically, at this point in time, his defence at point-blank range is terrible. Steward has him wanting to fall in and clinch and weigh down on his opponent. He can get hit far too easily from that short to point-blank distance. I include short body-shots, headbutts/clashes and rabbit-punches in this category.

His other major defensive deficiency, especially in the context of this fight, is the pushing rather than snapping of the jab. Sometimes he leaves that left floating around out there and guys can come over it. Haye will try to come over it.

I just think that Sanders was naturally far more mature, concise, a better finisher and more naturally heavy-handed than David Haye.

And at that, Wlad was never counted out, never put away by Sanders. He finished on his feet. Stoppage was perfectly legitimate. Sanders coup-de-grace was a fantastic straight left, thrown right down the pipe as Wlad loaded up on what is his true money-punch, the left hook.

 

I think the thing is Wlad is still open to getting hit by left hooks after throwing the jab, but Haye does not have good enough power or even throw the left hook enough. If Haye fights the way he did against Harrison, he's in real, real trouble.

 

If Haye (and I expect him to), comes out all guns blazing, tryin' to get Wlad out of there and does not finish the job, Haye's utterly shit stamina is going to be there for us all to see and we'll see a brutal KO.

 

I'm convinced now that the Harrison fight was a preconceived, misconceived farce. 2 rounds of nothing then Haye starts moving his hands. Audley even looked out at him, waiting to receive the right. Watch the restart after the knockdown, the referee doesn't ask Audley to walk out of corner, and Haye is basically allowed to sprint over and resume the fight, a very atypical restart, the referee didn't call him over and establish a distance between the fighters as is the usual case.

Haye's left hook is wide and sloppy. It's not as tight as say, Brewsters or even Sam Peter's.

Haye also seems incapable of leading with it unless he steps in with it, whereas Wlad can rattle them off from the shoulder from distance.

 

Haye is as right handed as they come.

Also, Haye cannot stand centre ring with Wlad and expect to land easily on Wlad's chin.

 

Haye is going to get worked and it won't be close. This has been a masterful job of hyping up a mismatch.

Famous last words...

 

There are, as I see it, two very well documented ways to get at Wlad

1. Just bumrush him, deal with the incoming, hope he get's tired, or punches himself out, thanks to the sheer pace of the fight and the sheer relentlessness of his opponent.

2. Get in close under his radar using a subtle or unorthodox approach, maintain discipline at close range and seek to lands short bombs from underneath that he doesn't see coming.

Calvin Brock in my opinion turned in one of the best/smartest attempts to derail Wlad. He kept his nerve, worked his way into the fight after a skittish start and landed short body shots and managed to get close to cut Wlad up with his head {not Calvins intention I agree}. I think he failed to do enough when he had the chance and Wlad re-established the jab.

Wlad was tired, cut, flustered a bit. I would only qualify it by pointing out that this was in 2006, his first defence of the title after he stopped Byrd and what, his 6th fight with Manny Steward??

Sam Peter tried the other method a year before when Wlad's absence of defence at point-blank range nearly cost him the fight. That said Peter absorbed an awful lot of clean shots before he got around to hurting Wlad and there is simply no way, no way, that Haye can take that sort of punishment.

I am coming to the conclusion that Haye's chance of winning is very narrowly defined, both technically and chronologically. He must land big, and he must land early.

 

Not by me.....

 

The people who have belittled Haye the most are actually the biggest Klit fans on the forum.

I'm picking Wlad in this fight because I'm objective. If I were not an objective Klitschko hater, I'd pick Haye like many others here are doing. As it is I don't think Haye has any chance of beating him. Wlad should not lose to Haye.

I don't have an agenda like Irish, who has claimed he knows how Wlad will lose if he loses (ie prefabricating excuses) but refuses to clarify what that means.

 

Of course, Pavlik was an American.

According to traditional white supremacist movements, you're not. Also, you have absolutely 0 in common with the Klitschkos culturally or linguistically. Literally the only thing you have in common with them is the color of your own skin, which is at best an extremely shallow criteria for affinity.

That's a fascinating story. I liked the part where an Irishman called another ethnic group grubby and dusty.

I'm surprised you didn't feel a special affinity with them, though, since they are largely "white" ..

 

::

I am like Haye, getting under your skin son.

Yes, I am a pro-white, anti-american klitschko nuthugger!!

And I already outlined how I think Wlad will lose this fight if he does.

 

I'm giving Haye a 1% chance of winning

 

It wouldn't surprise me if you honestly believed that.

Really? No one would've ever guessed.

 

Bear in mind that 42/1 {Douglas to beat Tyson} is mathematically a 2.38% chance of winning. Douglas was better than Haye but Tyson was better than Klitschko, so I think a 1% chance is somewhat light. I would give him a 20% chance.

 

Gaye, I mean Haye is 11/8 to win. Rubbish odds

 

Very little money to be made either side of that line.

 

Klitschko by KO at 13/10 strikes me as pretty good odds for a near cert.

 

7/4. I have 7/4 from six months back that Wlad wins by KO in any round. It is like buying money as far as I can tell...

MTF