_____ was UNBEATABLE @ ____ Lbs....

Sure. Marciano at 185. Its a bit mythical and all but.......today we have all sort of welterweight fights at all sorts of weights, hell the next-best-thing at 154 likes to fight at 150. ::

At 185, most guys are either going to be drained, so drained that he beats them, or so-not-natural 185lbrs {I mean, who the fuck weighs 185 anyways?} that Marciano almost always retains the edge.

Even a young Evander is forced to knock off an extra 5 to get down to the weight, apart from his very earliest fights, and guys like Walcott and Louis can't make 185 without damaging themselves. Ali can't make 185 either. Frazier can't do it without hurting himself. Norton....no chance. JJ Jeffries can;t do it, Willard can't do it.

Jack Dempsey? Boxcart Willy?? Pudding O'Leary....probably aren't beating Marciano.

If Rocky Pacquiano were around today, he would be boss of 185.

 

holyfield would beat down marciano at any weight

 

What, like this-------------->:Hanzkiller:

Don't be fooled by Evander's Chemical Infatuations at 200+

I am sure that at 185 he was but a fraction of the fighter he would become.

 

::

 

Well, McCallum at 154 is clearly the best answer.

In something like 30 fights at 154, only 2 guys even managed to go the distance with him.

Come on man.

 

The Holyfield that went to hell and back with Qawi in Atlanta in 86' gets destroyed by Marciano.

 

2 years into his pro career? give me holyfield to whip him anyhow

 

Is he? Head-to-head, I'd favour him over anyone, but I really, really don't see him as comprehensively a favourite at 154 as someone like Jones or Lopez would be at 168 or 105 respectively. I mean, Tommy Hearns looms large, win, lose or draw for McCallum --- & there were other excellent 154lbers, such as Benvenuti, worth consideration.

 

Holyfield, like Jones, is another benefitting from being a great fighter in a less-than-great (& quite young) division.

I cannot picture a single other Cruiser, ever, actually beating Holyfield (on his best night) at the weight --- but I will caveat that by saying career Heavyweights like Marciano & Dempsey, regardless of what they weighed, are judged for me against other Heavies, not Holyfield at the then-mythological weight between 175 & the big boys.

 

After Jones at 168, this was the next one I thought of as possible.

MTF :cheer:

 

I think he's an even better case, too. I can't think of anyone at Cruiser I'd give as big a chance of springing the upset over Holyfield as I would, say, Calzaghe at 168 against Jones.

 

Calzaghe wouldn't beat the Jones who fought at 168. He'd lose ten times out of ten IMO. I'd say the same about all of the best guys who fought at 168:

Toney
Hopkins
Benn
Watson
Eubanks
Collins
Nunn
Barkley
McClellan
Froch
Kessler
Ward

Who out of these has a realistic chance of beating Jones?

MTF :dunno:

 

What I am saying is I would give Calzaghe a better chance of beating Jones at 168 than I would any Cruiser of beating Holyfield. That doesn't infer I'm giving much chance to Calzaghe by default.

 

Fair enough

MTF :rock1:

 

Yep.. I didn't say McCallum was the only great 154 pounder ever. I simply filled in Reed's blanks.

It wouldn't be an interesting topic if McCallum was the only great 154 pounder in history.

That being said, I don't see any of them beating the Body Snatcher.

 

Well gee, since youre asking so nicely ::

 

I would favour McCallum over anyone, but Hearns could prove touch-and-go. I cant think of anyone like that at 190 for Holyfield, or 168 for Jones.

 

RJJ weighed 185 in the ring for a lot of his light heavy fights. Toney probably weighed about that for some fights at 168.

I'm sure they've already been mentioned but -

Duran at 135
Hearns at 147 (I still think he would've beaten Leonard in a rematch)
RJJ at 168
Hagler at 160
Whitaker at 135
Floyd at 130

 

also, Holyfield would FUCK UP (that's a capital FUCK UP) Marciano

Hearns-Trinidad is just a ridiculous matchup, Tito might not even make it out of the first round.

 

To have any shot, Tito would have to rush Hitman and take him out immediately. It could be done. If he hesitated at all, wed all see the result we're expecting. Youd have to think Hearns' range and power would give even a commendably determined fighter like Trinidad pause, though, and thatd likely be all she wrote.

 

It could be a mismatch in Hearns' favour, no doubt. But Tito has shown time and time again that he could rise from KDs and win fights by KO. When Hearns is hurt he usually lost the fight. Also Tommy was an exceptional boxer but he liked to be aggressive.

Hearns the favourite...but Tito a live underdog.

 

I have heard this before regarding this match-up, but what folks don't seem to ever take into consideration is that geting hurt/knocked down by Carr or Campas isn't quite the same as getting hurt/knocked down by Hearns. Hearns is a significantly more dangerous puncher and finisher than any fighter Tito has risen from the canvas to beat.

Tito is often a bit of a slow starter and that probably more of a factor in this fight than anything else.

And...I will take Hearns over McCallum, a great but sometimes overrated fighter.

 

I dont see Trinidad winning if he hits the deck. If hes to win, itd have to be a blitzkrieg, and all one-way.

 

Kevin Lueshing ::

 

Disagree.

Trinidad was not as vulnerable as people suggest. He has only been stopped once and that was from a consistent beating from the much bigger Bernard Hopkins over 12 rounds.

Tito got bounced quite a bit...but how often was he badly hurt? That's the point. Tito had terrible footwork..who knows if balance issues were part of that.

Anyway...


Iran Barkley was stopped by Benn in one single round, stopped by Toney, bounced by 100 year old Duran....yet he survived an early shellacking from hearns and was able to get up and knock Hearns THE FUCK OUT!! There is a precedent for this....as well as a precedent for Tito rising from the canvas and doing the same.

So yes, Tito is a live underdog and anyone who says otherwise is just a Hearns fanboy.

 

I think Trinidad could conceivably do it, but to me, "live underdog," is a stretch.

 

With Tito's desire, LEFT HOOK, and two fisted offensive accuracy (and stamina) and Hearns' susceptible chin..."live underdog" is no stretch.

 

So sayeth the King of Boxing Fanboys...

 

Yep. Every bit as dangerous as Hearns, right?

 

He had the "Look". Too bad Tito had "The Hook" ::

Tito did get dropped by pretty inconsequential fighters, but he was waiting for his wraps to warm up at the time.