So...how good was Ike Ibeabuchi??

Good point. I still think you are a little too harsh regarding Ike (and I think he is overrated by some as well), but yes...both Byrd and Tua are at their very best during Ike discussions.

 

Chris Byrd Fought Ammy @ like 165lbs...He Would've Probably Been an ATG Crusier...DESPITE Being Undersized, Byrd was a PERENNIAL Top 10 Heavyweight Contender for the BETTER Part of a DECADE...AND he Managed to Win a Belt, Something Oquendo, Golota & McCline FAILED to Do....



REEDopcorn:

 

No, By Showing an UNCANNY Chin, Stamina & Workrate...245lb Men SHOULDN'T Throw OVER 1,000 Punches in a Fight...& Again NO OTHER Man Even DARED to Stand Toe-to-Toe w/David Tua...Guys "OutBOXED" Tua...

Ike OutSLUGGED Tua...There's SOMETHING to B Said for that...



REED:shadow:

 

I think the point is the versatility he showed in beating two very different fighters and the attributes he showed in doing so. As mentioned he slugged with Tua and took his best shots, showed chin/heart/stamina/workrate in doing so, then beat Byrd who everyone agrees is a skilled fighter and he beat him arguably better than anyone has since (including the Klitschko's). The guy was only 20 fights into his pro career as well.

 

The question stands, Hitman. With due respect.

 

Ike Sparred w/Kirk Johnson on a REGULAR Basis & From what REED has Heard, Ike Routinely Got the BEST of it...Ike WRECKS Grant or Biggs...Golota Likely Shits BRIKCS During the Staredown...Bowe, Holy & Rahman Would've Been ENTERTAINING Fights, but REED would've Picked Ike in All of them...



REED:fightme:

 

He seemed to have it all, the musculature, size, speed, chin, punch, punch variety. But he was a nut, and a bully at that. We all know how they pan out, much like Golota and Tyson, when the shit hits the fan and they can't have their own way.

I think Lewis and Vitali would have tamed him. He might have gotten to Wlad, probably beats Tua every time, wastes guys like Briggs.

It would have been fun to see him vs Sam Peter in an All Nigerian affair. The two of them would be cussing each other out and we wouldn't have the first fucking clue what they were saying ::

 

CONTEXT, Ramonza, CONTEXT...

Leading Up to their Fights w/Ike, Tua & Byrd were Complimented Quite a Bit...They were BOTH Undefeated when Ike Fought Them...



REED:mj:

 

If I said something along these lines about someone like Tommy Gibbons or Harry Greb, youd be the first one here howling your derision.

 

I remember when people were clamouring for the next big thing, a guy they called, "Pernell Whitaker with a punch." Youd know him as Zab Judah.

You keep saying, "undefeated," as though that means something in modern Boxing.

 

for Byrd: Vitali, Tua.

For Tua: First Rahman fight, Maskaev fight, both of which made a lot of noise.

At the time Tua was prepping to fight Lewis, he was almost universally regarded as a very deserving challenger and a most appropriate contender.

 

That'd be a fairly insane argument. He was trading close rounds, missing shots left, right, centre, up & down before landing a hail mary. Wlad beat Byrd 19 rounds to nil, put him on his ass multiple times.

 

Fair enough. I think in hindsight we look at Tua as the fat, useless piece of shit that he is today and was for the later part of his career. At the time he was still in shape, was relentless, a hard puncher and I think was still undefeated. He was talked up quite a bit at the time and I still hold a win over an in-shape Tua in high regard.

As for Byrd, he was undefeated too I believe. I still think highly enough of him to believe that it takes one of the more elite heavyweights to destroy him in 5 rounds.

 

Yes, he was --- and history bore that out to be very hollow indeed, beginning with that very fight.

 

i thought ike fought an excellent gameplan, he was throwing lots of punches, many missed the scoring target but they made contact on chris byrd and it was a strategy that byrd could not sustain. he couldn't even last long enough with ike to compare with the 19 rounds he went with wlad or the 9 with vitali

 

Being Undefeated DOES Mean Something in MODERN Boxing, Bro...EVERYBODY KNOWS the Networks Loooooooooooves those Glossy Records....Well, Tua had a Glossy Record AND the DESERVED Reputation of Being a PUNCHER...

Prior to Facing Ike, Tua KO'ed Future World Champions in John Ruiz & Oleg Maskeav...He Also KO'ed David Izon, a Decent Contender in the Mid to Late 90's....The Next Guy to Beat Tua, After Ike, was Lennox Lewis...Which Means that Tua was ALREADY in Title Contention when Ike Beat him, THEN he Fought his Way BACK into Contention, AFTER Ike Beat him...

Did Tua Pan Out to Be the "Next Mike Tyson"????...Of Course Not...But U HAVE to Keep the TIMING of Ike's Win Over Tua in CONTEXT...It's Similar to Floyd's Win Over Angel Manfredy...It's EASY to Look @ the Win NOW & Shit On it, but if U Take Pre-Fight Perceptions & PERSPECTIVES into Account, U Give those Wins the RESPECT they Deserve...



REED:kidcool:

 

REED was Only Responding to Hanz's INCLUSION of Kirk Johnson, as a Guy he Wished Ike had Fought...



REED:hammert:

 

It's not whether Tua was this GREAT Heavyweight that accomplished a whole lot. It was what Tua brought to the table. Like him or not, Tua hit HARD and Tua had a great chin. Ike fought him toe to toe, the undefeated version, for 12 rounds. This proves Ike's chin as well as his stamina.

Byrd survived Vitali, Tua and survived Wlad the first time out (while Byrd was still at his best)...and Ike took him out!!

This proves Ike's power, accuracy etc (Byrd had decent defense and whiskers).

So it's not about Tua and Byrd in isolation...it's the manner in which Ike fought them and prevailed. He would have undoubtedly been difficult to beat.

 

Well said.

It's futile to argue this though bro. According to everyone all tua is.....is fat. You're wasting your time as am I.

 

haha must be the time of the year in our german forum the anual Ike thread came up two days ago... ::

 

said it before and I'll say it again

Ike beat both Tua and Byrd - two VERY different fighters - at their own games. Aside from the fact that both guys were considered very good contenders at the time, that is why the wins are held in such high regard.

Do I think he would've beaten Lennox? Unlikely. But I would pick very few HWs over a prime Lennox, so that doesn't mean Ibeabuchi is garbage.

 

Why is IKE not getting the love that Venezuelan lunatic does???

 

I don't remember Ike boring Byrd to death with a pawing jab and stick and move tactics...

 

I think he is... 50:50 between he would mop the floor with everybody in the division and he was just overrated...

 

Hmmmmmm...

Coming soon to Fightbeat:

Fight Club Volume 2 - Ibeabuchi vs Tua.

 

::

 

few get showered with the amount of praise heaped upon the legendary FOUR DIVISION CHAMP Leo Gamez

 

there are few who deserve it. gamez was the man

 

Doesn't everyone rip on Valero?

 

It's a good point; we never did see Ibeabuchi deal with the kind of height disadvantage he would've had against the likes of Lewis, Wlad or Vitali.

But I tend to agree with REED; given his ability and more importantly his willingness to take punches against Tua, it's difficult to imagine he would not have taken the chances he would've needed to to get inside the jab of those guys. And he would've had the physical strength to get off on the inside too, even while guys like Wlad held onto him for dear life.

I think it's stating the obvious when we say, "nobody really knows." I think that's the point; it's why it's up for debate and discussion. And it's strictly a matter of opinion given what you observed.

The thing about the version of Tua that Ike faced is that he actually threw more than five punches per round. This meant that Ike's strategy of standing his ground against Tua was not so ill-advised. He didn't have the kind of towering height advantage that Lewis had, and the Tua he faced was considerably quicker with his hands too.

And like the Tua win, I think it was the fashion in which Ike beat Byrd that was more impressive than anything. He absolutely set him up beautifully for the punch that ultimately ended things, and executed a strategy flawlessly from round one on.

That's another thing; Ike was no dummy. He was crazy, but he was a smart fighter too. When asked what accounted for his win over Tua, he said ring generalship. And I think he was right. And it's one of the reasons I think the decision was controversial. There wasn't a clear winner of that fight except in the sense that Ike controlled the ring.