Is your opinion that Wladamir is really good?

I don't intend this as a confrontation to any fans of Wladamir. I'm as full of shit as anyone.

Seems to me that if opponents would just go after Wladamir he'd lose as many fights as he wins. For example, I think Haye had him rattled in the 12th in the moment that he opened up a little bit...had he done that for 12 rounds I think he had a 50/50 shot of knocking Wladamir out.

Everybody just seems to let Wladamir get set and do what he wants. If someone fought him Mayorga style (what he did against Vernon Forrest, for example) I gotta believe he's gonna get knocked out as much as he wins.

I like him - I root for him everytime out...I just really don't think he's a really GREAT fighter and I think he's super vulnerable.

 

I don't know, pretty good question, of course, said hw would need some skill too. But sad thing is, no one really tried to pushed him since Brewster I. Some would argue Peter but I'd disagree. Brock did give it a decent try thought but he was just too small and powerless. It seems most are scared and don't want to suffer to pass his jab and reach so they stay on the outside ( terrible strategy ) and tries to get lucky with one punch. The hw today are so gutless, guy's like Thompson, Ibragimov and Chagaev, you'd think they'd try to give it their all in the biggest fight by far of their life. yet, their happyt to play it safe and try to survive.

 

Style-wise,.... Helenius has the best assets to get rid of Wlad. Sure Robert is a slow and useless oaf, but he rivals Wlad's height, he's strong, he has good reach, he's tough and hits hard,.. Helenius will lose via wide decision to Eddie Chambers,.. but I do think he's got the best chance against Wlad, than any other out there.

 

Wlad improved A LOT with Manny Steward in his corner. I think he would be better prepared right now for someone like Sanders and Brewster. He's learned not to take any opponent lightly and he's stopped trying to KO everybody. He responds better when pressured. He is indeed very very good, and would give any heavyweight in history a run for his money.

 

I'll always feel he was overrated and won fights mostly because he was so much bigger than most of the opponents he faced. Even then he didn't have the killer instinct to take out his opponents but rather safely won with a jab. I would have loved to have seen him face the type of big tough opponents Lennox faced in his early years. The Morrisons, Tuckers, Zeltjko's, and Mercers would have all given Wlad a real test and let us known where he really stood as a top notch boxer. As it stands now, I'm unimpressed.

 

My opinion is more or less no, not actually that good.

 

I think he's a smart fighter and he's very effective at what he does. That is enough to put him at the top of today's pathetic heavyweight picture.

I think he beats prime Mike Tyson but loses handily to prime Lennox Lewis and prime Evander Holyfield.

 

I think he's a fantastic fighter and have always felt so. A great fighter? IMO yes, he's just unfortunate to be operating in an awful era where he doesn't have the opportunity to prove it. You can tell he is desperate for a challenge.

 

Personally, I think Sonny Listons 15" fist, 86" reach and fearsome reputation had more to do with his success than anything else.

 

Wlad was toetally the better boxer in there.

 

Same.

 

He's not a great fighter, he will never be a great fighter, but he is a great boxer and his legacy should be that he kept the division afloat, comported himself with dignity and saved the division from a merry-go-around of classless shits posing as champions.

When Vitali was retired from 2004 to 2008, without Wlad, you would have had Sam Peter, Haye, Ruiz, Valuev, Briggs and Ibragimov and ancient Evander contending for the 4 belts.

 

Wlad is a good heavyweight.....he get destroyed by Prime TYSON, LEWIS, HOLYFIELD and BOWE....

 

I'd probably agree with you but since I didn't grow up in Liston's era and hence never got to see him fight I have no opinion on the matter.

In other words if you were trying to make a point, this is me pretending I missed it.

 

He's good, not great.

He always had the potential skills to be great, but his chin and lack of counter punching let him down.

I always said, if you had taken the two Klit brothers, take Wlad's overall skill and athleticism, and combined it with Vitali's chin and willingness to mix it up when needed, you would most likely have an All-Time great on your hands.

 

Bowe was a lazy-ass that only looked great against an undersized opponent. Holyfield had problems against taller heavyweights. Lewis beats him, and Tyson only has a punchers chance. People forget that Wlad's jab is like a power punch and very difficult to absorb/counter nowadays.

 

Tyson, only a punchers chance? ::

 

Bowe simply didn't have the head movement or nifty-ness to deal with Wlad, and Bowe struggled with guys who could out-jab him.

What kills Wlad, as pointed out above, is the lack of a counter punch.

His chin is adequate. Not great. Adequate.

If he could counter, guys would be even more hesitant about coming in and would stay still just long enough for him to spark them.

 

Whilst I disagree with Noble that the Klits aren't great, I believe they are, he makes a great point. Put the best attributes of Wlad and Vitali in one fighter along with the size and he'd be pretty much unbeatable

 

Vitali is a proper fighter. Counter puncher, size, chin, durability, activity rate, heart, good jab, short counter-left, neat uppercut, weird punches, he has it all. Most people don't realize how fast and fluid he was in his prime either. A young Vitali would stop Kevin Johnson. I sincerely believe the guy would have blown away the lower tier of the so-called great 70's division...Shavers, Quarry, Cooper, Bugner,Ron Lyle... they all get beat, one way or the other. What he does to guys like Richard Dunn, Lindenberger, Brian London, Leon Spinks, Chuvalo etc is nobody's business.

The Heavyweight division has always been unique. Its the only division where size and heart can truly make up for a skill deficiency. Not that I think Vitali has a skill deficiency. Blend some size, some heart, and a punch, and you are half-way home.

Wladimir falls away because he lacks the same chin and the same counter-punching that Vitali has.

 

in my opinion, no.

 

Wlad is world class, is a shame he hasn't the true opposition to really prove this

The better the opposition, the better wlad does i feel

 

"Weird punches," ::

What an interesting way to put amateur technique.

 

"Young Vitali" was pretty limited actually. I think the Lewis fight helped him, infact, he got nailed with an uppercut, and thought ..."ooo that's a good idea" and tried to throw his first ever uppercut in the same round, which had Merchant quipping in a drunken slurr....."Leeerrrrning on the job" ,.. the Sanders fight was interesting because he hadn't been taught how to properly deal with pressure,.. and so he arched up, scuttled and bent himself in half and threw awkward side swipes which proved effective,.. he absorbs experience very well,..he's like a bright eyed little asian kid, and his complete lack of a fucking coach has helped encourage him to develop on his own, since then,.. he's been better than ever,.. he may have struggled to solve Johnson's shoulder-roll shit but I guarantee he'll have left the ring equipped with knowledge on how to deal with it next time it is implemented against him.

 

Yes. Amateur Technique that moves a mans brain inside his head.

 

:scratcher:
yeh you can create unbeatable fighters using hundreds of various combinations

 

Yep, he's a smart fighter. I don't know what he learns from Adamek. How to take a whipping, maybe.

 

seriously, that is ridiculous, Wlad seems to have trouble with pressure and was koed or in serious trouble with 2 guy's with the build but a quarter of the skills of Tyson yet Mike would only have a puncher chance !!!

Could you imagine Haye going 12 unscatted with tyson ??? He'd get blown out in the early rounds

 

True, but none of them are brothers.

Not saying science will someday learn to fuse the two of them....................it's just an interesting talking point based on their shared DNA and different fighting abilities.