Y'all wont wanna hear this but...

Considering his physical limitation vis a vis the Klitschkos I thought that his performance was Toemendous!

 

I found it to be unsatisfactoery.

 

Spassky-Fischer was a virtual roller coaster ride next to Haye-Klitschko.

 

I heard Haye was driving and got stopped for not having a belt, so his car got toe'd









Jeeeeeeez

 

And you'd be wrong to. Roy invented a stylistic template which Haye has heavily, heavily borrowed from, even if he doesn't do it as well as Roy.

(low output, lowering your opponents output with range, feinting & leading with power shots to keep guys constantly wary - and by making your low output count, partly by patiently waiting to draw your opponents onto more damaging shots & partly by having the speed/power to deter hurt guys when you land). Nobody ever fought quite like that before Roy, it's different to traditional counter punching, but you see quite a number of guys doing it now, including Haye.

 

He's light skinned for a black guy...I suspect that he's Mulattoe

 

Is this the "evolution" of boxing?

Modern methods and skills surpassing the cavemen of the past.

David Haye would have feinted Bob Foster into cocoon of spastic horror.

 

It's a development. I'll use that word neutrally, I don't have concrete opinions. It's working for a few athletic types though and it's worked for Haye. Boxing skill/talent depth's deteriorated but boxing strategy's....developed or at least will always continue to diversify.

Ali wasn't really a step up in skill was he - just a step up in strategy by way of breaking convention to exploit physicality. Until he beat people he wasn't expected to people thought he was gonna come unstuck for doing everything horribly wrong. Holmes came along in the wake of him and fought basically the same way, Vitali's doing very similar things today - other guys at lower weights ditto. People are taking things from Jones' innovation in similar ways, from Floyd to Haye to Pascal with various degrees of success.

 

Bob Foster wouldn't have beaten David Haye, I can assure you.

 

Haye is for sure the 3rd best heavy? Based on what?

He might be, but you sure can't look to his achievements as a heavy to back up the claim.

 

The notion that we should decide to like this fight because we love boxing and this is what boxing has now deteriorated into is a puzzling one to me

 

which makes for tedious uninteresting matches and a shitload of guys who have no idea what to do when someone uses actual BOXING strategy against them... hence the continued success of ancient, past-it fossils like Marquez and Hopkins

 

In a Related Thread, this Word was OFFICIALLY CHANGED to "deTOEriorated"...



REED

 

::

 

Hut and Sly you're severely overrating Haye's performance.

His lay back and counter style was never going to work against Wlad, never. Wlad is too tall, too rangey, too patient, too accurate, too cautious.

The only success Haye had in the fight was when he took some risks.

I think it's relatively easy to get Wlad flustered and take him out of his game. Each time he's lost it's basically because he's been bum rushed, not 1 punch KO'd.

Without even factoring in his chin, he doesn't respond well to being attacked, he gets flustered and doesn't really know how to respond at the time.

Haye's best chance was to go for strategic but highly aggressive attacks, get Wlad flustered, wait for him to make mistakes in his flustered state, then aim to land some proper big shots.

The fact is Haye looked like a fucking amateur for much of the fight. Skipping around moving his head while being jabbed a lot, then WINGING these big wild, telegraphed right hands.

He did OK in rounds 3 and 4, but after that his performance deteriorated, he looked frustrated, just started winging wild right hands, not even timed particularly well.

And I guess ultimately he settled for a decision loss just like almost every other of Wlad's opponents. To beat Wlad he needed to alter his style. To beat Wlad he needed to take more risks.

In the second half of the fight he should have known he wasn't going to win a decision, and wasn't going to KO Wlad with one punch, and altered his style accordingly.

That's what a real "smart" elite fighter would have done.

I'm sure Haye thought he had a legit chance, but by the halfway point he basically decided he'd rather settle for a decision loss than risk getting KO'd.

Even if infighting wasn't going to work for him, seeing as he doesn't really know how, and Wlad is huge, at least really conserve energy in the first 2 minutes and do almost nothing, then aim to launch a BIG attack and catch Wlad off guard late in the round.

The fact is he did nothing. Just shuffled around getting jabbed, and launching the odd wild right hand.

 

No way, that actually looks remarkably like him ::

 

Thats him and his mom back in the day.

 

That is him, bruv ::. I remember seeing that photo in a paper after he beat Valuev

 

I would say the vast majority are not having much success at all

It worked for Ali and Jones because they were so physically unique

What it has done for the vast majority of guys who have imitated is that it has made them skittish and jumpy and unsure...

Bernard Hopkins isn't doing some amazing thing by beating the Jean Pascals of the world... he's simply using the same techniques Gypsy Joe Friggin' Harris was using in 1968 and the bigger, better, faster, space-aged superathletes he's facing have no idea what the fuck to do about it... If you took Bernard Hopkins as he is currently constituted, placed him in a boxing ring in 1980 with Matthew Saad Muhammad, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Mike Spinks, Dwight Braxton or any of 5 or 6 top ten 175 pounders of the time, things would not go well for him... hell, he would have trouble with Virgil Hill's movement and jab alone

I also think its fallacy to say that Larry Holmes fought in "basically the same way" as Ali... he danced a bit and he jabbed... that's where the similarities end... Holmes didn't carry his hands at his sides 90% of the time, he threw body shots, he actually tried to parry and block punches with his gloves up instead of leaning back or jumping back...

Lots of guys tried to copy Ali and they ended up knocked senseless because there were enough well schooled guys around to do that to them

Right now that is not the case... Roy Jones's style worked great for ROY JONES

Floyd Mayweather will win fights as long as he can still go three minutes at a time without being exhausted and as long as he cares enough to stay in shape... it won't matter that he will be older and slower... he'll win because he actually knows how to box, because he's doing his own variation on shit Georgie Benton was doing in 1960 and Niccolino Locche was doing in 1967 and Willie Pep was doing in 1944 ... there won't be anyone beating him into retirement because there will be nothing but a bunch of kids doing rooster feints and one-haymaker-then-clinch punch sequences and "Pretty Boy" will have a field day carving them up with good old-fashioned things like counterpunching, subtle lateral footwork and head movement

 

Wlad Looks like the Love Child of the "Karate Kid", Ralph Macchio & WNBA Star, Diana Tarasi...





REED:Lok:

 

:laughing:

 

You know, it can be a bit annoying sometimes writing long posts on an iPhone, and I thank you Mex, because this is exactly what I've been meaning to type today but couldn't be arsed to do :: :bears:

 

It is a rare occassion when we agree, but this was spot on:rock1:

 

Yep. He looks very Mediterranean. Expect Kauki to arrive in here soon with a dose of genetic information, referring to him as Moorlitscko or something.

Vitali, on the other hand, looks like Borats evil cousin. Guy is supposed to be posing for the family portrait and instead has a "Would Sir like to be fucked up" look on his face. :scratcher:

Matching t-shirts also appeared to be the order of the day. ::

 

How old are they there?

 

Every photo I've seen of Vitali he looks like a double hard bastard ::, even as a kid. Dude is a born fighter.

 

Hard to say, Wlad appears to be still, essentially, a boy, so that puts Vitali early-teens, mid teens at oldest.