Lennox Lewis - His best win?

This was answered in my first post in this thread.

 

I don't know what was worse... those or the bikini-esque animal print ones he wore against Terry Norris

 

Johnson had been slated to fight Lewis to begin with, so if he was good enough for Lewis, well, figure it out. Corrie Sanders had done better with Rahman than Lewis would do in his first fight, and is one of only 3 men to beat Wlad. Danny Williams was touted as a much tougher challenge than he turned out to be, but he had beaten Tyson, and was reckoned to be a real threat. Vitali handled him.. Sam Peter ha not been stopped by anybody, had one narrow points loss on his resume and wound up having his face kicked in by a man who had not fought in 4 years. Arreola and Johnson were undefeated Americans. Arreola got his shit pushed in despite Vitali spending 90% of the fight on the back foot and Johnson showed up specifically to survive, which makes me think that Johnson has a higher opinion of Vitali than you do. Sosnowski was a scrub and Briggs wasn't much better by then, but at 270lbs of steroid infused meat he at least forced Vitali to work. Solis was a good opponent its just a pity how that panned out.

 

Thats retarded

It's like saying Whitaker shouldn't get credited for his masterclass against Chavez because it was a "draw" :limpr against Ramirez the first time because it was a "loss":limp:

Ezzard Charles wasn't the best Light Heavyweight of all time because he didn't have a belt:limp:

ridiculous assertions

In each case the fighters did what they needed to do and then some; however, they were prevented from receiving the proper official credit by circumstances completely beyond their control

By choosing to abide by the official line, you are holding the fighters responsible for the corruption/incompetence/fear of the perpetrators... an outlandish intellectual position

 

Looking at the names Vitaly fought back to back ,you realize he feasted on a whole lot of garbage. Nothing too impressive about his reign. Still, I would consider Vitaly the best win of Vitaly career had his win been decisive. Consistency has to count for something and if there's something you can't blame Vitaly for, it's consistency. Plus, perception is really important, and the dominant perception is that, rightly or wrongly, Vitaly was the next dominant hw since Lewis left.

But winning by cut in a fight he was losing on points doesn't scream great performance in my book ( not saying he would have lost for sure without the cut, just that it was practically a coin toss untill then ). So I'd vote for Ruddock ( who I think woul have taken Vitaly, or at least, gave him a war), even though he seemed a bit past it due to the Tyson beatings when Lennox got him.

 

oh, fuck off

such revisionist horseshit

 

wildly off-base nickname

you could sooner apply a moniker like that to me than to Irish

 

yeah right, so, how many other opponents has Lewis stopped by cuts ???

 

fact is, most cuts are caused either by headbutts, thumbs or glancing blows, neither of them are the roots of a conclusive victory imo

 

Topic asks, "best win" does it not? A disputed draw is not a win.

If I ask...who was the most talented fighter out of these Olympic Champions: Ray Leonard, Oscar De La Hoya, Roy Jones...everyone including you would be telling me that Jones was not an Olympic champion. Guess what. He wasn't....even though the robbery in that case was ONE THOUSAND times worse than Chavez-Whitaker much less Lewis-Holyfield 1.

So when talking about Lewis' best wins...we are talking about his best WINS...not his best "controversial draws that we believe should have been counted as wins".

 

I was teasing.

Hearns was a great win for Hagler. Am I annoying you today brother? ::

 

what does this have to do with anything?

what caused Vitali's cuts?

Are oyu suggesting it was something other than Lennox's right hand?

 

YES!!!!:flip::flip::flip:

:mj:

 

I certainly would NOT

As far as I am concerned, Roy Jones was one of the best olympic boxers who ever breathed

Here's the TRUTH:

Ezzard Charles is the most easily provable great light heavyweight who ever lived

Pernell Whitaker boxed Ramirez's ears off and won at least 117-111 or possilby 116-112... He beat Chavez 8 rounds to 4 at least

Lennox Lewis beat Holyfield with a ton of room to spare

Roy Jones won his gold medal match and deserves full credit for it

Rocky Lockridge defeated Wilfredo Gomez

Jersey Joe Walcott beat Joe Louis in the first fight

 

What on Earth does that have to do with anything? :dunno:

Let's put it another way. How many opponents has Lewis stopped by punching them in the face, repeatedly and very hard so that they are unfit to continue fighting, with his fists?

MTF

 

this is all rather moot. it was a legitimate win and if you say otherwise you are wrong. more to the point - was the performance conclusive enough from Lennox to warrant calling it his career best win?

That's where I side with the Holyfield I performance. He won that fight decisively and even without the official nod he won the fight in the eyes of the public, the boxing community, the american media, and the popular people's front (or is that the people's front of judea?)

I'd even go with Rahman II, Tua or Ruddock due to their conclusive results

 

it's meant to show that it was a fluke. if they fought 100 times, it would probably only occur once, if even that. An example I have from the top of my head in the Randy Couture Vitor Belfort triology in mma. Couture dominated 2 of the 3 fights and only lost the second due to a cut early in the fight. I don't see anyone giving any serous props to Belfort for winning this fight because the fight showed nothing.

And don't get me wrong, I regard Lewis far higher than Vitaly. I just give everyone their proper due, and it's wrong to say that Lewis conclusively beat Vitaly He didn't.

 

MMA::

 

For the trillionth time: this wasn't some minor injury. One small cut could indeed be considered somewhat lucky in the right circumstances.

But there was a CLUSTER of cuts caused by PUNCHES. Not just little cuts but deep, career threatening wounds which ran near to the bone. If you punch your opponent in the face repeatedly and in doing so you cause him serious facial injury, you have not won by 'fluke', you have won by being better at boxing (avoiding punches and hitting the other bloke) than the other man.

MTF

 

I could have said vargas-Mosley I, where Mosley won on cuts in a fight that was practically even. Not a lot of people claimed that Mosely decisively beat Vargas

 

sorry but I feel your opinion is strongly based on the fact that your a Lewis fan and that he is british. I may be wrong but I doubt you'd say the same thing had Lewis been dethroned by a cut Either way, we'll just agree to disagree. I don't consider a victory by cut ( uneless you the winner was dominating the fight ) as a victory in the pure sense of the word. To me it's more like a victory with an asterix next to it.

 

Back to this again? Really?

Holy 1 I think. Evander faced and defeated good opponents. Vitalis resume isn't all that great. That isn't is fault as there aren't many good hws out there but it does count against him in a 'best win' sense.

 

I am both a Lewis and Vitali fan, though I rooted for Vitali, as much off the back of the merciless pillorying that he received in 2000 when he quit vs Byrd.

The Lewis vs Vitali fight has myriad debates that people often overlap, sometimes unwittingly.

1. There is the short notice that BOTH men, and not just Lewis, took the fight on.

2. There is the stoppage itself.

3. There is the rematch, what woulda happened in the rematch, etc.

All 3 are related arguments but which can be, and should be, dealt with on their own.

The ONLY arguments not in favour of the stoppage being GOOD are as follows

{a} Lewis aggravated, illegally, an otherwise legally caused cut, by way of his laces/masking tape, and his hair. Not a major issue for me, its not a picnic, and there is a world of difference between an illegally caused wound on one hand, and the illegal aggravation of legally caused wounds on the other.

{b} Vitali should, considering that he was 4-2 ahead, and Lewis seemed exhausted, have been given "one more round", namely the 7th. People often misinterpret this. They say it would have been unethical to give the man 3 more minutes. But he never would have gotten 3 more minutes. It would have become clear that his cuts were going to worsen again, or that Lewis was going to fold. Once it was clear, either way, the fight could have been stopped.

I sincerely believe they should have given him that chance. That is my only real, major beef. Who got the short straw with the notice, whether Vitali could have improved for a rematch....are totally separate arguments, neither of which should be allowed to muddy the waters.

The only real beef with the stoppage is that they could have put Vitali on notice and let him go all out. Chances are, either man would have been stopped 60 seconds or so later. Not a huge ask for the officials. Its not like Vitali was sat there, hoping they would stop it, and its not like Lewis was fresh as a daisy.

Whats done now is done, regardless.

As for Lewis, the Vitali win is a rarity in boxing. Lewis cleaned out the old, and survived the new. Thats rare in boxing. Even Marciano didn't manage that, with Archie Moore getting stopped by Patterson.

 

regarding point 1 - I do believe that the short notice affected Lennox moreso than Vitali. Altho the calibre of opponent increased for both men, only Lennox had to alter his gameplan due to the change. Vitali was preparing to fight a smaller man and was not altering his usual gameplan of accentuating his height, keeping things at range and tying up/overpowering his foe on the inside.

Lennox, however, DID have to alter his gameplan... and he didn't do it very well certainly not early. He was preparing to fight a smaller man where he could do the same things as listed above, but then when switched he was actually facing a bigger man who he couldn't easily keep on the outside, outmuscle in clinches and keep at his range.

Also Vitali being the contender could not afford a bad showing so was in top shape while Lennox was coming off his (in his mind) career defining win and was facing a relative soft touch was the heaviest weight of his career if i am not mistaken.

 

It has nothing to do with him being British in the least. I am one of Amir Khan's few fans but, for example, the refereeing in the Barerra fight, which was stopped on a cut, was absolutely bogus and I said so strongly here in the live thread.

You are acting as if this cut was singular and minor or caused by some accident instead of the reality that 'it' was, in fact, a cluster of serious cuts caused by punches.

We shall agree to disagree, but to state that the win has an 'asterix' is wrong IMO.

MTF

 

It affected both, sure, but such short notice is likely to affect an older, less motivated fighter IMO. This is just speculation, of course, but I would agree with a take that Lewis, having beaten Tyson, was mentally retired the second Mike hit the floor in that 9th round.

MTF

 

An extra round may have been permissible in hindsight but at the time the doctor has to make a judgement call. I cannot stress enough the severity of those cuts: if Vitali comes out an ships another couple of big right hands he might have been seriously injured. In light of his successful career post-Lewis, i'm not sure that the risk would have been justified.

MTF

 

Lewis retired at the worst time. Right when questions were being asked about his character and warrior spirit, he retired. Staring at one of the biggest fights and biggest threats of his career, he decided to quit boxing.
He didn't like the fact that Vitali, even despite all the gashes on his face, continued coming forward against him. Lewis' spirit was broken and he's the one who was talking sh*t about Vitali prior to that fight.
Any other boxer would've gone down in flames if they had retired after a tough fight. But I think because everybody hates Vitali so much on here, they give it a pass.

 

Saying a fight that ends in a cut caused by a punch or punches is the most idiotic argument I've ever heard.

 

Bullsh*t! Lewis wanted to smash and expose Vitali. He was salivating about killing Vitali. When he found out Vitali could take his best, Lewis wanted out. Lewis turned into a cunt by retiring right when a real challenger finally stepped to him.
Mentally retired! :laughing: