Where does Wlad rank in HW history?

Wlad's career seems to divide opinions more than ANY other heavyweight career in the history. It seems like a legit case could be made for both placing him to top-10 and to mark him at around 30th.

Some facts:

+ Wlad has been unbeatable for seven years either as the #1 heavyweight or very close to it, which few heavies in the history have done. Also he has a solid record from the time before this reign

+ Wlad has cleaned out the division in the way few others done, facing the best challenger available several times.

+ None of Wlad's wins in those seven years have been questionable or even close, which is also rare.

- Wlad's era is considered to be a weak one

- Wlad has lost three times to rather bad opponents. Other great heavies have had early losses, but not three of them

- A case can be made that Wlad's technique is simplistic and his fights are uneventful.

The rest such as 'Wlad is too big', 'Wlad has high KO %', 'Wlad is a pussy', 'Wlad seems vulnerable' etc. seems to be either matter of tastes or simply meaningless, but if I left out some considerable facts please fill it in.

Also, give your opinion of how high Wlad ranks all time (about). Personally I have him at lower top-10, but I realise I am a nut-grabber with a bias

 

In terms of greatness he is nowhere-for now. In years to come, the opening up of the East and Far East to professional boxing may yet throw up champions who embellish and promote the sport yet further. Then, and only then, will Wlad be regarded as a "great".

In terms of ranking based on how many of the other champions he would have beaten, he is probably well inside the top 20.

 

TOP 50 at Heavyweight.....

 

:rock:

 

If he beats his brother top 20

 

top 40

 

Greatness?

First Tier (In order)

Ali
Louis
Lewis
Tyson
Foreman
Holmes
Holyfield
Marciano
Johnson
Dempsey

Second Tier (in no particular order)

Bowe
Wlad
Frazier
Liston
Walcott
Tunney
Patterson
Charles
Vitali


Wlad is solidly Top 20..anyone who says otherwise is just a cunt.

 

You can't name 20 guys greater than him let alone 40.

 

Somewhere around Leotis Martin, who once beat a decent fighter.

 

no he hasn't.

He never fought his brother.

in term of acomplishment, he's a top 20 hw.

 

Joe Louis
Muhammad Ali
Jack Dempsey
Evander Holyfield
Riddick Bowe
Floyd Patterson
Jack Johnson
Gene Tunney
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Rocky Marciano
Ezzard Charles
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Larry Holmes
Jersey Joe Walcott
Jim Jeffries
Sonny Liston
Max Baer
Max Schemeling

Corrie Sanders
Ross Puritty
Prime Lamont Brewster..



yeah it's getting kinda tough.....Okay I say top 30-40 but he will lose to 90-95% of the people on my list......

 

He's a pretty dominant champion in an absolutely terrible era of HW boxing. The fact that his clear win over David Haye, a career cruiserweight, is probably his best to date tells you everything about the division today. He is excellent offensively, with very good movement for such a big man, and a wide variety of punches (notwithstanding that he is generally throwing them at useless, unfit, fat lumps of lard) especially his excellent jab. On the other hand, he is clearly vulnerable to pressure, quick hands and a bit of fire. His chin is at best average and more likely weak/terrible and he has three losses to truly average fighters. Ultimately it is very difficult to rate a guy against ATG's when the guy has never even come close to fighting one (not his fault, of course).

He is not in the elite class for me. not be a long shot. I wouldn't give him much of a chance (or less) against any of Ali, Frazier, Lewis, Holmes, Foreman, Tyson or Louis. Of the next lot, his size and strengths give him more of a chance against Holyfield, Liston and Marciano, though I wouldn;t pick him in any of those.

For me, Wlad belongs in the next group: I'd make him either a slight favourite/underdog against most of Patterson, Tunney, Johnson, Bowe, Charles, Walcott, Johannson, Norton, Schmelling etc etc.

Therefore I'd stick him at low top 20.

MTF

 

I'm calling bullshit on Baer and Schmeling.

They are famous names in history...but they haven't achieved as much as Wlad..as for Sanders, Puritty and Lamont Brewster (:giggle:) we may as well rank Rahman and McCall over Lennox Lewis as well by that logic....

 

Name 30 that are greater than him tough guy!

 

Schemeling beat Joe Louis...that's better than anything Wlad has ever accomplished..and i give you baer i guess....


I was joking w/ the last 3...LL logic doesn't work because Lewis rematch both of them and destroyed/owned them.....Wlad was sooo terrified of Corrie that he sent his big brother to do the job..

 

fair enough...

 

LOL

he's a little better than that, based on his size alone, but I agree he's not great

 

He's last, he's last, he's fucking last!

 

His brother, clumsy style and lack of real pop notwithstanding, is much more formidable because unlike Wlad, he comes equipped with a chin and fortitude

 

These personal lists are always filled with bitterness and biases.

Wlad reminds me of Monzon, upright tedious euro-style,.. he reminds me of Hopkins, chronically breaks the rules and stops the action frequently,.. and he reminds me of Winky Wright,.. uses a monotonous offense, or Muhammed Ali,.. 1,2 clinch, 1,2 clinch, 1,2 clinch.
So I'd assume by old-school American standards,.. he's gotta be great?..

'Measuring greatness' reminds me of mythical p4p lists,...I just believe he's the 2nd best of his time behind his brother, and that's all there is to it,.. I mean,.. old-school Americans rank Lennox Lewis somewhere around the 10 - 15 region of best heavyweights of all-time.....:: WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!?????... and so these rankings should be left to old-school american posters, and to them alone for thier eyes only.

 

I rank Lennox Lewis easily in the top ten of all time heavyweights

You and Irish are whacked, man

Wladimir Klitschko has been brutally stopped by some HORRIBLE fighters, two of them unquestionably in his prime... the other you could MAYBE make a case for him being a greenhorn (though his awful opponent, Ross Purrity, makes this a difficult case to really endorse) ... he avenged only ONE Of those defeats, quite a few years later... Lennox Lewis emphatically avenged his setbacks

You don't get to be in the TOP TEN OF ALL TIME in the heavyweight division with that on your record

You guys act like people don't think Wlad is great because he's not American, this is preposterous

And I suggest you rethink your notion that Lennox isn't ranked highly by Americans... why don't you start a thread and ask some of us?

Like I said, to me, he is clearly top ten, it's not even debateable and most guys I've talked to on here seem to be in the same school of thought

 

Every, single, fighter has setbacks,... you think Ray robinson or Ali didn't have any?.... I could dramatise thier losses full of hysteria too,... I think old-school posters should enforce thier own rules,... as for me,.. I want nothing to do with mythical lists, argued passionately as if it were a fact.

It's as good as the computer fight,.. Marciano vs Ali ..... ::

 

I rank him at the tail-end of the top-20, just rating linear champions (I think there have been around 38 or 40).

I don't believe the contention of some he's a great champ in a weak era (as in the case of someone like, say, Holmes). He's not a great fighter, & it's very tough to cement yourself as a great champion with the losses Klitschko has, & the era he's in. He is a good fighter, though, with some excellent strengths, & some serious flaws.

I don't think he could really be favoured to beat anyone in my top-10, though.

 

Well said. I think both the Klitschko's are solidified in teh top 20 aka the second tier of great heavyweights, and they are still climbing. their eventual place will depend on the next few years and then a little bit of context and we will see where they finish. I think they will both finish higher than they are right now.

 

top 10 at least if not top five.

























among most boring heavyweight champions

 

I have never said any different

Ray Robinson had 202 fights, in how many of those was he dropped repeatedly and finished off in two rounds by a journeyman?

What's hysterical about the Sanders loss? Wlad was annihlated in two rounds by a guy who's biggest win was Al "Ice" Cole... where is there anything like that on Muhammad Ali's record? On Robinson? Duran? Whitaker? Mayweather?

It is not just the sanders loss... look at the absolute collapse in the Brewster fight... what is its equal on the resume of Robinson or Ali?

Ali lost fights... to outstanding fighters, close fights at that, he avenged his losses

Robinson lost some fights too, especially later in his career, again against outstanding fighters, again he avenged them until the last few years when he was basically a name and nothing more, losing to guys like Joey Archer and Denny Moyer... those guys were both good pros, but they would not have beaten him at his best

Wladimir Klitschko is a big guy, with athleticism not typically found in one his size... He has some good techinical skills, a fine jab, a good hook, a hard right, his footwork is solid for such a big dude... but his limitations are clear as well... he does not deal well with determined pressure (though it is rare that he ever has to worry about that since the vast majority of heavyweights in the world are shit and lack courage and determination) , his chin is unquestionably soft and his stamina when forced to fight at a high pace is a well established liability

It's one thing to have certain weaknesses... Ali's difficulty with left hooks and counter jabs... Robinson's difficulties, even at his peak, with cuties and right hand counter punchers...

It's another thing to have a soft chin and a very clear stamina and stress issue with regard to serious, committed aggression

Without completely making things up, there is no way to put Wlad Klitschko the fighter or his career in a light so positive that it in any way makes him comparable to the likes of Ali/Robinson; conversely, there is no way to "dramatise their (Ali/Robinson) losses to hysteria" to an extent that can make them lesser enough to be compared to Wlad Klitschko

 

Top 20, just behind big bro

 

Corrie Sanders would have knocked Floyd Patterson into the middle of next year. Corrie Sanders would have stretched Johannsson too. I don't recall too many 6'4", fast-handed, powerful southpaws doing the rounds back then.

 

He is definitely last.

Vulnerable to a bit of fire??

Floyd is vulnerable to a bit of fire......if you could get close. If you weren't drained/overweight/a natural bantamweight, you might be able to subject him to some fire.

Wlad knocks Patterson, Johannsonn, Louis, Schmeling etc out into the middle of next year.

 

Johannson sucked

Patterson was a skillful guy with no chin

It's hardly a mark of greatness that Sanders could have beaten them

How do you think Sanders does against anybody really good and tough?