Psychological tough guys

REED Certainly ISN'T Trying to Open Up Old Wounds, Brother Hut...But if that Loss was Anything, it was PSYCHOLOGICAL, Wouldn't U Say???...



REED:egypt:

 

U're WELCOME...



REED:hammert:

 

For sure, but certainly not an act of cowardice, an act of total disgust. And who could blame him.

But your objection is a fair one and QC Hut of this thread upholds it with the above qualification. *bangs hammers*:truce:

 

how about juan manuel marquez? fucker gets dropped 3 times in 1 round and also hit after the knockdown vs. pac, somehow regroups and comes back as if those knockdowns never happened.

i've actually never seen marquez seriously hurt or look discouraging despite getting dropped. talk about a stoic look.

 

Morales is the f'n man. I get a wee swell in my breast every time I think of that dude these days. I hope he's snorting coke off the tits of a 18 year old stunner with a big smile on his face right now.

 

Not Only Did All the AforeMentioned Happen in that 1st Round, but Marquez's Nose was Probably BROKEN as Well...NOTICEABLY Disfigured @ the Least & Bleeding PROFUSELY Throughout the Fight...Yet 11 Frames Later, Marquez had POCKETED Most of the Ensuing Rounds...

The Knockdown Against the Younger, Stronger, Aggressive Katsidis was a Pretty HAIRY Moment Too, yet Marquez was Back In CONTROL by the End of the Round...

It's NOT like Marquez Simply Got Up, Took his Beating like a Man & Ended Up LOSING Going Away....No, Marquez Got Up, Took his Beating like a Man & REVERSED the Fortunes, More Times than Not...He's DEFINITELY a "Psychological Tough Guy"....



REED:kidcool:

 

exactly. i thought the katsidis knock down sort of woke him up.

my favorite round was vs. juan diaz in their first fight when diaz put it on him towards the end of the first round. at the sound of the bell, a fired up diaz looked at marquez who simply just stared him back w/o much expression.

 

I thought Holyfield looked like he had fear in him during the Toney fight.

Wlad fights like he has fear, but you wouldn't know he was scared by his pre-fight stare downs.

Mayorga seems to fit this topic well. Also guys who come to the ring with a big grin on their face like they just love to fight. Guys like Trinidad and Pacquiao.

 

Actually Hagler might not have been the best example. After Duran went up to him and said, in broken English, "We about the same size. Maybe we fight", Hagler HATED him from that minute on. If he was totally secure in himself, I don't think he would have been fazed.

I'm not calling one of the greatest middleweights ever a wimp, but someone who's a better example and comes to mind for me is Pernell Whitaker. He LOVED fighting top competition and it was absolutely no sweat off his back whatsoever. Another good example would be Mike McCallum. Nothing seemed to bother that guy.

 

I find this an interesting thing to think about, and interesting to hear the different angles people are bringing to it. Good points Buddy. ^

 

He was hardly intimidated by Leonard. But like Hut said, let's not get into that.

Also, Hut - I don't think he was scared of Hearns, he looked more disinterested than anything else. He certainly didn't seem concerned by the bigger Iran Barkley.

 

Because none of them was seen in any way as a real threat to him at the time

Come on, how many times do you have to get schooled on this topic before you let it die?

Kalambay at that time was a virtual unknown, his only truly notable fight was against Ayub Kalule (he LOST), victim of Ray Leonard and Davey Moore... He would not fight Mike McCallum (and make his name in the process) until almost a year after the Hagler/Leonard fight

McCallum was known only to hardcore boxing people, he was a junior middleweight and he still was more than 3 months away from the fight that would make him well-known; against Don Curry

Graham was seen as a lower top ten contender at this point at 160... He gained notice by beating the same Ayub Kalule that had beaten Kalambay (who he then lost to a month after the Hagler/Leonard fight, which then plummeted him back down the rankings to 10 in THE RING annual rankings for 1987)

Nunn, seen as an outstanding prospect, had yet to engage in a fight against anyone of particular note in the division. He won the NABF strap towards the end of the year (at the time, a meaningful steppingstone title, though it isn't anymore) ... it was not until 1988 that he would defeat Frank Tate to win the IBF belt, it was well over a year after Hagler/Leonard... and it wasn't until almost two years later that he became a star with the knockout of Kalambay

None of those guys were thought to be a threat to Hagler at the time... it's easy to look back NOW with hindsight and say "Hey, Michael Nunn was pretty good... Herol Graham was soild... Mike McCallum came up in weight later and fought real well" but at that time, nobody was saying that crap

Margariot, Cotto, those guys were seen at the time to be very legitimate threats to Floyd, they were seen as the OTHER best welterweights... the two situations have nothing in common

 

REED NEVER Said or Insinuated that Duran was "Intimidated" By Leonard...REED's Never Said or Insinuated that Leonard was WHIPPING Duran or Administering Any Sort of PHYSICAL Damage Upon him, Either...

But if YOU Can't Admit that Leonard Indeed "Got" To Duran, U're LYING to Yourself...The Title of the Thread is "Psychological Tough Guys"...CLEARLY, Sugar Ray Leonard "Got" to Roberto Duran Psychologically, in their 2nd Fight...



REED:kidcool:

 

Very good point. That's the kind of mental composure that'd get you an egg & spoon across the battle of Stalingrad.

 

for the topic, an old-time guy that fits the topic well was Carmen Basilio, who was a rough dude with no fear of anyone

At leats when he was a Featherwieght champ, Eusebio Pedroza was utterly unflappable... he just went out there, punched guys in the balls and won

 

I think it's fairer to say the injustice and farce of the entire situation got to Duran. I suppose 'Leonard' as in Leonard the systemically advantaged American star, Leonard the negotiator, Leonard, thy bringer of clown rings got to Duran.

But I've said enough on this fight.....til next time somebody brings it up anyway ::

 

I bet about 80 of the 100 guys who'd most deserve mention here are old time guys. People were flat out tougher 50 years ago.

 

Buster Douglas.

 

REED Honestly DOESN'T Want to Debate Duran-Leonard II EVER Again, but Loaded Gloves WON'T Stop...Make him STOP, Brother Hut...



REED:Lok:

 

On second viewing, you're right actually I retract what I said. I was projecting hindsight onto what I saw. Duran was hard as fucking nails.:rock1:

 

Really, so when he ate himself into a diabetic coma, he was just being psychologically tough? When he quit against Louis Monaco, he was being tough?

The Tyson fight was an aberration. His mother had just died, his kid was sick, and his woman had walked out on him. Those three things would make any boxer extremely pissed off.

He also folded way before he even made his first title defense against Holy.

 

Buster Douglas made his legacy with that Tyson win. He never needed to do anything else in his career to gain respect from anybody.

 

'tis true

 

Hopkins

 

i really dont buy into the theory that people were tougher 50 years ago. it just so happens that circumstances then dictated the opportunity for them to display their toughness

there are guys fighting today who couldve fought in that era and done well, very well

 

yup.

Those were the days when young boys used to go to school walking in the freezing cold in the snow with just shorts, t-shirt and sandals on and walk uphill both ways. They don't make'em like that anymore...

 

indeed there are

but the average fighter was tougher and more courageous 50 years ago than now... the films don't lie

 

Yeah but back then they didn't have the chemical race we do today,.. they were natural,.. I guess if nothing else, that's a good reason to be 'old school' .

By the way,.. a 6ft 2 Irishman...sounds dreadfully NORSE to me.. :nono: ...

 

the heigh comes mostly from the Kerry side of my family, actuallyhno:... the Kissanes

 

Aye. Great depressions, great wars. None of it was too great, but tough experiences, tough people.