What do the following fighters have in common?

Ugo is now excruciatingly close.::

 

I'll give it away with an EXTREME comparison (I want somebody to get this!::) - watch a clip of Marciano then watch a clip of Cotto against Malinaggi.

 

angles?

 

It does create a defensive angle/off set line as built into it.....I'm annoying even myself with these cryptic clues, I'll def reveal if nobody gets it after the last two clues. It's screamingly basic.

Clue 5) It's so foundational that it's the first thing Mike McCallum has novice boxers at his gym learn. The VERY first thing.

Clue 6) Fighters doing the opposite of this was the main reason Dana White said boxing could never work unadapted in MMA (though I don't think he knew the classical approach in boxing was to do things the other way)

 

After all of this the answer is BOUND to be an Anti-climax ::

 

:: Fucking hell man, don't I know it.But believe me, once you start looking for it, it's effects on styles, the change in it through the years. Fascinating.

 

something to do with how far apart they keep their legs?

 

Not really but you're in exactly the right area.

 

The way fighters criss cross their legs when moving side to side? I know hopkins is a master of this in particular.

 

I'll PM you the answer mate

 

Is it the ability to abandon the prediction contest?

 

issed:issed:

I have no fucking idea....and the things i though it might be have already been mention....


First thing they teach you at a boxing gym? Is the stance and foot positioning....

 

yeah..yeah..yeah you been saying that for the last 2 months.....

 

Yup, it's stance. One particular thing related to stance.

 

They all hop around on one foot.

 

OK, Im sick of dragging this out.

It's weight distribution in the basic stance.

A majority of top old time guys put most of their weight on their back rather than lead foot, which allowed for better weight transference on straight shots('relaxed punching') but also shifted the placement of their head so it was off centre & further away (think Joe Louis, Ray robinson, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore's head placement).

Guys like McCallum, Hopkins &Toney all do this too. They'll shift their weight forward & back as they're coming forward and to turn over the right/set up the hook, but their default position is with the majority of their weight on the back foot, head off center. Hopkins is quite subtle, probably only 45/55 and often closer to 50/50, but he takes advantage of this allot.

Floyd & Pernel both flirt with the front foot to DRAW guys so that they could roll and counter but both guys default was usually back foot too and they certainly shifted to the back foot way more than the majority of modern guys.

This is now pretty rare. If you watch Cotto, Wlad, & Pac before they were 'fixed up' by Steward &Roach (who both teach close to 50/50) you see how front foot weighted they are. Cotto against Malinaggi as the fight progressed is the most extreme example I could find. Marciano was the most backfoot dominant guy I could find, along with Charlie Burley who there's a (pretentiously toned) video about explaining some of this stuff.

Probably an anti-climax but Eddie Futch & Mike McCallum certainly thought/think it was super important & if you look out for it the effects of it are interesting, as is the gradual move away from it over the last 30, 40 yearss. But as I said, it's now the very first thing Mike McCallum has novice fighters taught when they come to his gym in Las Vegas.

 

Stance...i'm still confused.....


There are a lot of things....catching punches with your gloves..using your left shoulder to cover you chin....issed:

 

I'd already said it was about balance.....then said Ugo was 'excruciatingly close' with 'weight shifting', then said it was an aspect of the basic stance.:TLC::scared:

But yeah, its kinda the elusive obvious. Crazy that none of us notice something so basic and seemingly important. I never did until it was pointed out by something a trainer that works with Mike McCallum wrote.

 

:scratcher:

 

typo, already corrected. i think given the rest of it you could have peiced that together. athetic:

 

i have always boxed with most of my weight on my back foot. interesting. imo you should almost always been on the ball of your back foot, ready to pounce

 

Bouncing on the toes

 

Ay, I was in the right ballpark

that is a good one, Hut

it's one of MANY things that the new crop do not know how to do and consequently why an old kook like Hopkins is still competing

 

I agree. And why a fat 40 year old middleweight like Toney could get to title contention at heavyweight.

 

Were you taught that way or did you just settle into preferring that?

 

Do you have a theory on why this change has happened? I mean, if it is no more secret science than this and it gives you undeniable results, why has this skill disappeared? Is it more difficult to teach than it would seem so that there are not enough good trainers to do it, does it take some athletic talent that not many have, does mastering it take too much time for the newcomers so they rush ahead without learning this, does the modern way of weight-shifting give you some other benefit or what is it?

And since I will be accused of having an agenda anyway, it is this: technique like using the jab has not disappeared, instead it is used more now than most times in the past. The skill of shoulder-blocking for example has almost disappeared, my guess is that since it is a difficult technique and doesn't give you any real advantage compared to slipping or arm-blocking, there hasn't been need for it. Why has this skill eroded?

 

indeed!

 

My theory is that somewhere between Roy Jones and now, it was decided that being a great athlete was somehow the main foundation for being a great fighter -- hence the leap amateurism and skittish defensive tactics that now DOMINATE the sport

This "athlete = good boxer" notion is, of course, complete and utter nonsense and always was, but carry on, boxing, carry on...

 

This is possible. Roy was such a phenomenal athlete that he could beat even the most skillful guys out there, so it has brought the misconception that anybody can do it by repeating his moves.

I don't think this explains everything though: I believe if the difference in success was a dramatic one, these old-school gyms would quickly wipe out the products of 'athlete clubs' at the world level. However, this type of change in thinking sounds like a plausible cause

 

I think the 'modern' way offers two advantages - one I think it makes guys a bit more mobile. two, it especially makes them able to retreat quickly and get back out of range quickly. And these are much less difficult skills to learn and teach than subtle positioning and angling. Also it obviously makes the hook more potent.

But too far on the front foot is just flat out WRONG as you can see from the big improvements in guys like Wlad, Pac, Khan and soon to be Cotto, I expect. So if guys are coming through and learning (or just settling to without being corrected by a coach that knows better) a way thats clearly flat out disadvantageous, I question whether the rapid evolution to the front foot or away from infighting, subtle defense etc is really conscious & deliberate or driven by competition at all. Or whether its just as Ive always suspected that the old guys who knew these fundamentals are literally dying out and the knowledge is going with them. For my money McCallum, Floyd, Pernel, Hopkins & Toney are among the best technical fighters of the last 25 years or so (I believe that statement stands up beyond just my personal preference but maybe you'd disagree?). Have you seen many guys come along and better them with simpler styles? Hopkins, McCallum & Toney were besting simpler 'whatever works' guys after their bodies had hugely declined.