Don't think I've seen this one before. Now I'm not sure if Toney spent any time at 175lbs..but given his success at 168lbs as well as at Cruiserweight, we can assume that he'd have been equally as effective at 175lbs. Hopkins showed against Tarver, Pavlik and others that he maintained his silky skills at this weight. Fascinating fight. Two of the best technicians in there. Fabulous display of skills. Wouldn't be terribly exciting but it would be one for the purists. I can't make a pick. It'll be a close debated decision either way.
Hopkins all day over that lazy, one-dimensional fatty Bernard could stick jabs in his face and his flabby abdomen and win it going away while Toney poses and wishes Hopkins was a face-first brawler
Toney never beat a guy in his life who wasn't right there to get hit clean over and over If Michael Nunn wasn't such a mental midget, he could have won that fight 10-2... insetad he was like "Golly, this is great, this guy just stands there rolling his shoulders, I think I'll open up some more like a dummy" after about 3 rounds of TOney repeatedly catching him with right hands as soon as Nunn became more aggressive, you would think Nunn's corner would have said "hmmm, maybe you should keep the left in the harness and stick to jabbing, make him come to you" but noooooo... let's allow a guy who is really tremendous at ONE THING (counterpunching) all the chances in the world to demonstrate that ability... IDIOTS If you could stick and move on Toney, you could beat him clearly
Toney was less stationary at 160 and I think this is a better fight there. At 175, I gotta go with Hops.. Toney was truly fat and lazy at that weight.
175 wasn't a great weight for Toney, he was better at Cruiser. Hopkins was in better position to win this fight at 175, but people are under-estimating Toney in general against Hopkins. I think I'd give him the edge at Middleweight.
I never saw Toney take a beating in a fight or close. One of those guys who can be outpointed, but not outfought. Love those guys.
Well, its hard to lay a beating on a defensive-minded fighter Did he win two rounds against Jones? maybe that at most sure he wasn't getting the Chavez/Rosario treatment, but he was still soundly beaten, he was never really in the fight The point is that I never saw Toney successfully track anyone down, he was one-dimensional... if you came at him, it was going to be tough on you, because he was a super counterpuncher... if you made him come after you he looked rather impotent... Montell Griffin, who was a pretty ordinary top ten guy- certainly nothing great as a fighter, beat him twice that way; Reggie Johnson, IMO, outpointed him, and again not exactly a 1st tier guy there... Even Toney's excellence in dealing with aggressors is a bit overblown... Yes, he looked beautiful at times the way he would roll and then come out of a defensive move with a counter, but he also had plenty of very close fights even in that scenario-- McCallum went right at him for god knows what reason and the fight was nap-and-tuck (Toney won it, to me, with the last round) ... Tiberi flat out beat him, in my opinion... Nunn could have beat him by a wiiiiide decision if he didn't get overconfident and start trying to KO him (still credit for Toney for siezing the opportunity) ... He did a number on Barkley, for sure, but the guy was made for him and had been in a ridiculous number of tough fights I think Toney is overrated, frankly... He was a great countepuncher, but everything else about him is drastically overblown, especially his power
I'm gonna have to agree with Hut here. Toney may have been fat, lazy, and undisciplined, but when he was on his game he was a great fighter. Michael Nunn was outboxing him, yeah, but remember that at the time Michael Nunn was thought to be the second coming of Sugar Ray (Leonard or Robinson, take your pick). He wasn't exactly a bum.. and Toney flattened him.
He was WRONGLY thought to be those things by some people however, he was beating Toney with ease until he got cocky and started trying to knock him out... he could have jabbed his way to victory surely, you at least agree that Toney was not a versatile guy?
Yeah, I agree with that. He didn't like to have to chase guys, especially at higher weights.. but I do think he was much more mobile at 160 than he became later in his career. The Montell Griffin fights were very close, a lot of people thought Toney won the fight. And Toney was completely out of shape for the Tiberi fight.. he offered Tiberi a rematch immediately after, but Tiberi decided he'd rather retire instead.
I dig all that, but Griffin was NOTHING, man! Same with Tiberi we are putting him in here with a crafty SOB who is not easy to hit and who can make Halle Berry ugly, a guy who is not going to fight Jirov-style or Barkley-style I don't see any scenario where Toney does anything but lose to Hopkins
Don't get me wrong, I don't either. Though I'd still pick Hops, I think that it's a more competitive/interesting fight at 160 than at 175.
