Which 140lbers Would You Give...

Discussion in 'General Boxing Discussion' started by Ramonza Soliloquies, Jul 20, 2011.

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  1. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    Trinidad was a dummy, Whitaker would have bamboozled him at his best

    Hoya did beat Trinidad clearly in my opinion... 7 to 5 is being kind to Trinidad
     
    cdogg187, Jul 21, 2011
    #31
  2. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Tito already beat a version of Whitaker easily. Very easily.
    You must believe that the version of Whitaker he beat was completely shot, but I don't. He was only 35 at the time. I just don't think Whitaker was that good of a welterweight to begin with and Tito was an excellent welterweight.
     
    mikE, Jul 21, 2011
    #32
  3. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    well, you are a retard so it doesn't matter
     
    cdogg187, Jul 21, 2011
    #33
  4. puerto rock

    puerto rock WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    I can't see 9 rounds to 3 for De La Hoya over Tito either.

    7-5 is a fair score or a draw. There were some swing rounds there that could have gone either way and with Oscar's constant back peddling, he could have easily given away some rounds,.
     
    puerto rock, Jul 21, 2011
    #34
  5. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    What about Chavez? Has anyone mentioned him as a possibility?
     
    Double L, Jul 21, 2011
    #35
  6. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    Those guys were as big or bigger than Trinidad, which is the point.

    The whole loaded gloves thing makes a discussion about Trinidad pointless. Half the time he had loaded gloves, and he knocked the shit out of people. Half the time he didn't, and he got beat easily.

    The problem is, his glove loading, to a large extent, coincided with his move to 160, although his power was fully intact against Joppy, the only fighter he faced at 160, "before" taking on Hopkins, and first having his loaded gloves discovered.
     
    Double L, Jul 21, 2011
    #36
  7. Hex-One

    Hex-One "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Agreed! Benitez takes Tito to boxing 101
     
    Hex-One, Jul 21, 2011
    #37
  8. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    Benitez doesn't qualify since he's known as much or more for his work at welterweight.
     
    Double L, Jul 21, 2011
    #38
  9. Hex-One

    Hex-One "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    I cant see Tszyu taking Them Tito bombs. He gets Ko'd for sure.
     
    Hex-One, Jul 21, 2011
    #39
  10. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    that time of the month?
     
    mikE, Jul 21, 2011
    #40
  11. Ramonza Soliloquies

    Ramonza Soliloquies "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Wow. I have no remark for that.
     
    Ramonza Soliloquies, Jul 21, 2011
    #41
  12. loadedgloves

    loadedgloves "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    You're kidding. Whitaker was beyond shot at the time. What does being 35 have to do with anything? Aside from the fact that every fighter has a different expiration date (how old is Erik Morales now? how old was RJJ when Tarver KO'd him?), Whitaker was a fucking coke addict.. that shit will put miles on you.
     
    loadedgloves, Jul 21, 2011
    #42
  13. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    I disagree

    He won his first title at 140 against one of the best ever at the weight, 17 years old, and he made four defenses

    He beat a very, very good fighter (Palomino) for the welterweight title and successfully defended it once before losing it to Leonard and moving up to 154 immediately

    How is he more of a welterweight?
     
    cdogg187, Jul 21, 2011
    #43
  14. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    no, that time of the day (as in daily) when I am reminded of how big a fool you are
     
    cdogg187, Jul 21, 2011
    #44
  15. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    the "I don't think he was that good a welterweight" line was also immensely ignorant
     
    cdogg187, Jul 21, 2011
    #45
  16. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    I know what happened. I just don't think he qualifies as a Tszyu or a Pryor - a guy who made his name at 140. He just doesn't. Why? He didn't fight Duran, SRL, or Hearns at 140. He fought them at 147 and at 154.

    But thanks for the history lesson.
     
    Double L, Jul 21, 2011
    #46
  17. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    Chavez. The Chavez who beat Taylor moves up and fights Trinidad. Take your pick. Now.
     
    Double L, Jul 21, 2011
    #47
  18. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    He fought Cervantes at his peak, a better scalp than any on Pryor's or Tszyu's resume

    More history lesson for you
     
    cdogg187, Jul 21, 2011
    #48
  19. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    I've seen the Cervantes fight. I know it was a great performance. And I know what he did.
     
    Double L, Jul 21, 2011
    #49
  20. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    yet, you don't see him as a true 140 pounder

    you see him as a welterweight off of a win and a loss there

    this is roughly the equivalent of saying Julio Cesar Chavez isn't a junior lightweight because he didn't fight Taylor or Rosario there
     
    cdogg187, Jul 21, 2011
    #50
  21. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    funny. You've responded to my posts before?
     
    mikE, Jul 21, 2011
    #51
  22. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    seriously

    you said:

    1) Whitaker wasn't a good welterweight to begin with
    2) He was not used up when he fought Trinidad

    both of those things are as idiotic as anything ever said by anyone on this site... they aren't quite "Terry Norris, 20th best p4p fighter since 1940" but they are nonetheless awfully incorrect
     
    cdogg187, Jul 21, 2011
    #52
  23. TLC

    TLC "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Floyd would've beaten him.
     
    TLC, Jul 21, 2011
    #53
  24. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Alright, let's say he was beyond shot when he fought Tito. I agree, it's possible. He'd looked like shit for a while...

    Which 147 version of Whitaker was the guy who was going to beat Tito? Imo, you don't get much from the McGirt versions other than Whitaker was better than a not-quite-as-good, right-handed version of himself.

    The best 147 lb version of Whitaker, imo, is probably the guy who beat JC Vazquez at 154, but even that version was knocked down to the canvas.

    I just don't see Whitaker able to keep Tito off of him. And no version of Whitaker after Rivera even has a chance.
     
    mikE, Jul 21, 2011
    #54
  25. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    McGirt a right handed version of Whitaker? weird, just weird

    flip it...

    name one 147 pounder on Tito's resume (besides Hoya, who he did not really beat and who should have lost to Whitaker anyway) that you would give a snowball's chance in hell of beating Whitaker

    the best guy (other than Hoya) is probably Oba Carr... OBA CARR... this is the legendary Welterweight you are talking about here

    McGirt was better than any guy Tito beat (actually beat) at 147, by a long ways... Vazquez as well

    If I had a hundred dollar bill for every guy that Whitaker fought where people said "I can't see him being able to keep that guy off of him" and yet Whitaker did EXACTLY that, I'd be holding a nice stack of bills right now... everybody ALWAYS said that shit, and then their guy would lose 9-3 just the same and looked surprised that what Whitaker was throwing back actually did hurt
     
    cdogg187, Jul 21, 2011
    #55
  26. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Tito wasn't going life and death with the likes of Pestriav, McGirt, and Rivera at 147, he was killing those guys. He only had one close fight at 147 and that was with dlh and it's not like Whitaker did any better against dlh.

    But I spotted Whitaker the JC Vazquez fight...and if we count the higher weights...Tito has David Reid, Joppy, and Vargas...any of whom would have a chance against a welterweight Whitaker. Oba Carr was pretty much equal to McGirt at welter, imo, and McGirt did okay against Whitaker.

    So which version of Whitaker are you going to go with to beat Tito?
     
    mikE, Jul 21, 2011
    #56
  27. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    Jesus christ, dude

    95% of the above is just flat out nonsense

    I'm not even going to bother
     
    cdogg187, Jul 21, 2011
    #57
  28. Neil

    Neil tueur de grenouilles

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    im waiting for someone to create the mcGirt-carr welterweight mythical matchup.
     
    Neil, Jul 22, 2011
    #58
  29. loadedgloves

    loadedgloves "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    1. None of the guys you named in your second paragraph that Tito fought were welterweights. WTF do they have to do with anything?

    2. The version of Whitaker that beat Chavez at 147 would SOUNDLY beat Trinidad. And if you disagree with that, I really seriously don't know WTF to say to you.
     
    loadedgloves, Jul 22, 2011
    #59
  30. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    Does Chavez, the 140 pound version, beat Trinidad? At 147?
     
    Double L, Jul 22, 2011
    #60
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