Which was more brilliant?

Yet his "Best Performance" EVER was @ 147???...

U CAN'T Claim this, THEN Use Weight as a CRUTCH to Excuse his LOSSES....If Duran was TRULY @ his Best in the 1st Fight w/Ray Leonard, that Should Rightfully MINIMIZE his Loss in the RE AND his Losses @ 154...

Somehow, Duran was "Out of Shape" in the 1st DeJesus Fight, in the High 130's, was "@ his Best" in the 1st Leonard Fight, @ 145 1/2, yet 1nce Again "Out of Shape" for the RE, when he Weighed 146:shit:...

"Somehow", Duran was FINE @ Damn Near 160 vs. Hagler & Iran Barkley, yet he Gets the NOT "Hardly his Best Weight" CRUTCH @ 154, when the Losses to Hearns, Benitez or even Kirkland Laing R Referenced???...


REED:Lok:

 

:bears:

 

And if you have the nerve to suggest Leonard fought a stupid fight in Montreal, you're just "making excuses."

 

What fucking difference would that make??? Wlad fought a stupid fight vs Purritty. Ali fought a stupid fight vs Cooper when he was floored. Lewis fought dumb vs Rahman the first time and Rahman fought even dumber the 2nd time out..........likewise, we could just say that Leonard took advantage of Durans poor preparation the second time out. :wack:

 

True, he had to get 40 lbs off his fat ass to make that weight, so it wasn't Duran's fault

 

Deep breaths.

 

Not an argument mate, sorry, but you really do need to start arguing the pertinent points.

I guess Ali fought a dumb fight versus Frazier the first time, or George fought Ali's fight in Zaire. ::

This comfortable accommodation which is made in certain instances should be applied universally or discarded entirely.

 

Disagree.

Jones-Toney was far more impressive than either. Calzaghe-Lacy was impressive also...although it coul dbe argued that Lacy wasn't very good to begin with.

 

1. Leonard 1 was Duran's best performance at 147, not his best performance period

2. Weight and fitness are correlated but not the same

3. Duran lost to Hagler, Benitez is unquestionably superior to Barkley.

4. Last time I checked, 147 & 154 are different divisions

 

Right....let's take this on.

Whose win was more impressive?

Jones, the magnificently talented Jones, over a man who had spent the previous 24 hours receiving injections so he could urinate and being re-hydrated via a drip.....or Calzaghe, whose opponent was retrospectively downgraded to bum status by dint of the very efforts of Joe Calzaghe alone???

On Paper, of course, Toney is the superior fighter, the superior ring craftsman.

But where do you draw the line??? How much can Toney be said to have had the night he fought Jones?

One reporter even said he heard something "sloshing around" inside Toney during the fight.



:dunno:

 

true

but he was also at 154, and 32 after a long career (1967)

I'm not taking anythign away from Benitez's win, it was a great performance, but when people use it to detract from Duran's greatness, it is just retarded

I'm not even a Duran fan, really, but he's very simply one of the greatest fighters who ever lived and his real decade was the 1970s, not the 1980s

 

Jones-Toney is the premier performance when talking about distance fights over very good competition.

 

only if your knowledge of the sport is limited to the last 20 years and you forget that Toney was a fat, lazy, overrated slob to begin with

 

Nonsense.

Toney was undefeated at the time, the slight favourite, and a ring genius with wins over Nunn, Barkley, Williams, McCallum.

It is your knowledge that appears to be limited...

 

Toney, physiologically, should never have been passed fit for that fight. Only James ring-smarts and Jones oft-alluded to tendency to coast and play-act saved him from a horrendous beating. The simple reality is that in terms of bone and blood, Calzaghe beat a far better fighter than the Toney Roy Jones played with. When you take into account the then-disparity between Jones talents and Calzaghes talents, the nature of Roy's "accomplishment" by beating that Toney is put yet into better perspective again.

Roy messed around with a guy who had been eating lettuce and drinking water, was getting shots so he could piss and was hooked up to a drip the day after the weigh-in.

 

Your knowledge of the particulars of that fight are limited.

Ali had wins over Frazier, Foreman and Liston when Holmes beat his old, brain-damaged, dehydrated ass.

Holmes manned up that night, fo sho'

 

a ring genius?

he's an excellent counterpuncher with very limited mobility, average and totally overrated power... he had trouble with every smart boxer he ever faced, could not handle movement, could not LEAD... He BARELY beat McCallum... Barkley??? you always bring that up like it's a big deal when it absolutely WAS NOT... Nunn was as dumb as a rock, he gave the fight away with overconfidence, for 6 rounds he kicked the dogshit out of TOney... why do you forget that Toney LOST to Dave Tiberi, he lost to Reggie Johnson for fuck's sake... Toney dominated Barkley, thats it... he was NOT a ring genius

 

Tiberi would clean out 168 today though, Dawg.....::

 

His losses to Tiberi and Johnson came AFTER the jones fight and so are irrelevant when talking about Jones' achievement on that particular night.

Barkley twice beat Hearns btw. So you can "bumify" (Copywright D&D) him as much as you want.

 

No they aren't. Don't get the wrong impression, I am not trying to put down Roy Jones Jr....I am just saying that Toney was not fit for combat the night Jones beat him....and the Tiberi and Johnson fights, the Drake Thadzi fight....suggest he was still yet to get his act together some years later.

 

NO THEY DIDN'T, YOU IDIOT!!!!

THEY CAME DURING HIS GENIUS reign at 160!!!! What the fuck??? you don't even know the facts!!!

Barkley beat a good Hearns in 1987!!! YEARS earlier and then later pounded a split decision over a 175 Hearns who Frankie Swindell probably could have KO'd

shut up with this ignorant crap!!!

 

::

 

he fought at 160:nono:

Reggie Johnson would easily be a middleweight champ right now

And Jones would own 168

 

Yeah but he would still own 168 too :nono:

 

Tiberi was a gutty clubfighter, essentially

even in the current flotsam, he's no better than a contender

 

He can't win a decision in Oakland vs Ward, that's for sure.


















:scared2:

 

:laugh11: Frankly, man, I don't think the location matters much there

 

Lacy was visibly garbage from the get-go. He was just awful, even his left hook was overrated. The version of Toney that Jones Jr beat would have beaten the ever-loving fuck out of the Lacy that Calzaghe fought.

Having said that - as masterful as Jones Jrs performance against toney was, there is still an asterisk next to it. Still a much better win than Jrff Lacy, though.

 

:shit::shit:

Toney prime-for-prime, pound-for-pound, was light years ahead of Jeff. The night he fought Jones he would have lost to Jeff. Physiologically, he was not there. At all. If you look at Lacy, he would have thrived on fighting a more-talented but physically handicapped opponent. Jones took it easy on Toney, not out of sympathy, but out of a desire to show-off and play-act. Lacy would have also been more than at home fighting Tiberi.

As for this "always overrated" stuff...yeah, sure. Show us your betting slip. Oh. Silly me....I forgot.:bow::bow:

 

I thought Lacy was shit and still thought he had a shot at beating Calzaghe... of course this says a lot more of how little I think of Calzaghe than it does of how much I think of Lacy

Calzaghe won with room to spare, easily... still doesn't change the fact that he's the most overrated fighter ever and that people who have him top 50 p4p are fucking bananas