Who was the most complete out of the Fab Four?

??

 

Good question. I'd say it is Hagler, narrowly before Leonard. Hearns and Duran had obvious flaws. Neither Leonard nor Hagler had any glaring weakness, but perhaps Hagler had the edge in being able to use several tactics.

 

Leonard

he's one of the most complete fighters ever imo

 

Gotta go with Leonard, followed by Duran, Hagler, then Hearns.

 

Leonard, though I still say Hagler won that fight

 

I don't think Hagler was really versatile, as outside of the Hearns fight, he was mostly a boxer/counterpuncher and sometimes failed to adjust his style.

Hearns get my pick, he outslugged Duran and outboxed Benitez

 

This is Leonard for sure

 

I'd probably go with McCallum. Fab 5 bitches.

 

This is wrong

Hagler was exceptionally skillful... his whole career proves it

Watch Hagler/Briscoe... there he uses great lateral movement and his sterling, sharp jab to outbox a great inside fighter

Watch Hagler/Minter... here, he takes advantage of his ability to get inside on Minter, a guy who thrived at long-range, and forces a phonebooth confrontation, chopping the guy up something fierce and stopping him

Watch Hagler/Hart... Hagler is both inside and outside in that fight, diffusing Hart's bombs and countering beautifully... luring Hart to the ropes and then coming off of them to land shots inside... then when they are in ring center, he beats him long-range

Hagler/Hearns... knowing full well how difficult it is to box Tommy, he simply throws the skills out the window and immediately attacks... stays right in there and wears the guy out

Four totally different opponents, four completely different strategies to achieve the same goal: victory

that is by it's very definition "versatility"

 

Duran 0 % :Thumbs:

 

::

 

Wow. Im as critical of Duran (or rather, his reputation) as anyone, but he gets my pick here.

He could box, slug, & counter at the highest levels. At his peak, I would rate him the best offensive AND defensive fighter of these four, a remarkable thing.

The ONE division they all shared was Middle...& the best at that weight was the specialist 160lber, unsurprisingly - Hagler.

 

All of them are complete fighters, a pick of any of them is understandable. I'd go with Hagler or Duran.

 

This poll should be unanimous, shame on the fools picking anyone but leonard. I mean wtf guys.

 

The more I think about it, the more I feel this topic is splitting hairs.

 

The ANSWER to this Question Lay in the MATCHUPS Themselves...The CLEAR CUT Answer is Ray Leonard & Here's Why...

1. In the Midst of Getting OUTBOXED by a Rangy BOMBER Named Tommy Hearns, Leonard Proceeded to OutFIGHT him...

2. After Going Toe to Toe w/Roberto Duran for 15 Rounds & Losing by 2-3 Rounds MAX, Leonard EMBARRASSED Duran Into QUITTING, via his SUPERIOR Boxing Skills, in the RE...

3. Despite 3 Years on the Shelf, Leonard SHITTED on the Arrogance of Marvin Hagler, OUTBOXED Him in the Early Going & Did just Enough to EARN a Close Decision...

Ray Leonard was the QUINTESSENTIAL "Complete Fighter"...SPEED, POWER, SKILL, AGGRESSION, SCIENCE, SMARTS, DEFENSE, OFFENSE...REED Defies ANYBODY to List a WEAKNESS that a PRIME Ray Leonard POssessed???....Leonard BEAT Hearns @ his Own Game...Leonard ALMOST Did Likewise w/Duran, THEN he CLOWNED him in the Immediate RE...& he Came STRAIGHT FROM RETIREMENT to Outpoint Marvin Hagler...

Whether U Think Ray Leonard was the BEST Fighter of the Bunch (or Not) There Can B NO DOUBT that he was the Most COMPLETE Fighter of the Bunch...



REED:mj:

 

There is plenty of doubt with fighters of this class, REED.

And Duran, even by the standards of the Fab-4, was an astonishing fighter.

The best and, for me, the most complete.

 

Leonard didn't almost beat Duran at his own game, nowhere close to it, and that was in Leonard's best weight class, 2 divisions north of Duran's best weight class. Nor was he dominating the drained version he had in front of him in the rematch. Duran quit because he was annoyed, not because he was embarrassed.

Hagler was past his prime when Leonard fought him and even then, many felt Hagler won. Leonard never made any attempt to fight a younger Hagler, it was when he saw that Hagler was fading while ringside at one of his fights that he decided he'd fight him.

Hearns was outboxing Leonard in the first fight for long stretches, and if they'd rematched immediately there's zero doubt in my mind Hearns would've beaten him (as he did in '89). Ray knew it too, hence the lack of a rematch until years later.

Leonard was a complete fighter, yes. Most complete? Very debatable.

 

Duran had a quit in him unlike the others so perhaps that makes him the most complete?

 

The thing that tipped it for me is that I can't see Leonard doing what Hagler did against Hearns, which is that when he was forced to do it (the cut could have caused the bout to be stopped), Hagler could go all out and force a quick KO. I don't think Leonard could do that against a world-class opponent. Leonard's best game was better than Hagler's but I think Hagler had one tactic more (as they both could also box, move, slug and counter)

 

:giggle:

 

The problem with the way the question is framed is that it immediately recalls the Duran who fought at 147 and above. Which is fine, if that's what's intended. But if Duran's to be fairly compared to the others, his time at 135 must be considered first and foremost, and for me, it's hard to make a case any of the others were as good as a 135 pound Duran.

 

Yep thats the thing there.

I think Duran is overall GREATER P4P than the rest of the 3 because of his accomplishments, particularly his lightweight reign.

As far as being able to fight any style, Leonard IMO comes number 1 followed by Duran who is still underrated for his technical skills and is remembered more as a brawler. Hearns in 3rd followed by Hagler is fair IMO.

 

Hearns incredible difficulties with toe-to-toe brawling makes him a clear number 4 to me

Hagler's all-around brilliance is being undersold here quite a bit... guy could do everything

 

wtf!?

 

:wack: that's retarded

 

::

 

U're Probably Even MORE of a Duran NUTHUGGER than Brother's Hut & Mex Wedding Shirt, which is Saying ALOT....

Duran-Leonard I was a CLOSE Fight...PERIOD...If U Wanna have a SEPERATE Round by Round Debate Over the Matter, REED'll GLADLY OWN 'dat Ass...

Leonard CLOWNED & EMBARRASSED Duran Into QUITTING...U PREDICTABLY Respond w/BULLSHIT like "Not Ready", "Undertrained", "Drained", Blah, Blah, Blah, but the FACT is, Duran WILLINGLY ACCEPTED a TKO DEFEAT..."Annoyed", REED's Ass...Check your Hero Worship & WARPED View of Duran @ the Door, Dude...

Was Leonard in HIS Prime when he Fought Hagler???...No...Leonard was Post-Retina Surgery AND Came Off a 3 Year Layoff RIGHT INTO The Hagler Fight...No Tune-Ups or Anything...

As for an Immediate RE w/Hearns & Leonard, Perhaps Leonard "Wasn't Ready", "Undertrained" & "Drained" in the 1st Fight...U're Right, Hearns WAS Outboxing Leonard for Looooooooooooong Stretches...w/a Swollen Shut Eye & WELL BEHIND on the Cards, U Almost Couldn't Blame Leonard if he Pulled a "No Mas", Huh??....



REED:notallthere:

 

Maybe, but I'm not as big of a Duran hugger as you are a Leonard/RJJ nuthugger. Leonard was competitive in the fight but there's a difference between that and "almost beating Duran at his own game." Duran controlled the fight from start to finish, he was the man in there.

Duran was visibly annoyed with Leonard, as Larry Merchant (iirc it was Merchant) said, perversely it was Duran at his most macho; Leonard wasn't "boxing" that night, he was flat out running and clowning, it was a fucking disgrace. Duran quit for that reason, remember the quote "I don't want to box with this clown anymore?"

Leonard wasn't in his prime when he fought Hagler but he was relatively fresh with very few miles on the odometer.. as opposed to Hagler. He chose to come back ONLY because he thought Hagler was slipping, and even then, as far as I'm concerned, he FUCKING LOST.

Name one TOUGH fight a la Hearns/Leonard where Duran quit? Go watch Duran's fight with Ray Lampkin (who would EASILY be the champion at 135 today).