Heavyweight division officialy dead

The USA became the "Worlds #1 Boxing Power" during the absence of most of Europe.

 

Again, I'm not saying any names... :: ::

 

Americas success and history in boxing doesn't bother me at all. They absolutely are/were innovators. The UK would never match up to the USA in terms of boxing success due to the sheer size of the place. It's practically a continent vs an island. If you compared it say England vs California for example, it would be fairer.

As it is I don't really get caught up in nationalistic disputes. I've won shitloads of money betting against UK fighters like Hatton (easy money when you consider how many fools are brainwashed by sky sports news). However, a sizeable chunk of the worlds population were cut off from competing during long periods of Americas success, to say that is meaningless is, well it's just wrong.

 

In fairness to me in my stupidity (and I do appreciate your discretion ::), I was 18 at that point. & if I were ever to become a so-called 'respected poster', it'd have to be at least 5 years after that. Further, Manny's rise through the weights is the stupidest thing that's ever happened since Mull of Kintyre got to number 1.

So really, your point is quite moot, sir!::

 

The Klits are the exception but other than that there isn't a single fighter who's come along and enriched the sport. To say American boxing has been swamped by a huge wave of Former soviet, competition is, flatly, ridiculous.

 

::

No worries man, wasn't meant to be a witch hunt. We were all so aggressive in those days, it's hilarious to read ::. I was such an annoying little prick back then, it's no wonder MWS wanted to beat my brains in ::

Agreed on Manny, I was on the bandwagon after the Ledwaba win, and picked him to beat Barrera, but I'd be lying if I said I forsaw what would happen after that. In fact after the Morales loss I was worried he may have found his ceiling, but fuck. It really is stupid what's happened since then!

 

Were you still called Slice N Dice back then? If I could I would burn those logs:laughing: Nobody wants to read the heinous shit they were spouting as a teenager.

 

I think at that point the only fight I'd seen of him was the Agapito Sanchez fight where he looked awful and was basically getting physically bullied. I think that fight was on a ppv undercard. No youtube in those days, if you wanted to see a previous fight you had to buy the tapes and the Sanchez fight certainly didn't inspire me to go the extra mile.

In those days that was quite enough to form an opinion definite enough to defend to the bitter cyber-death though:fightme:

 

Yea I was still Slice N Dice, although I did briefly have an alter-ego called Piccadilly which I invented solely for the purpose of winding up Mex and that 7-7-2 guy ::. So juvenile!

Some of it is absolutely cringeworthy :: but great reading none the less

 

nonsense

it was number one already by the early 1900s, long before the Iron curtain existed
yeah, Irish, the eastern bloc was just CRAWLING with Mate Parlovs-in-waiting who didn't get a chance:kick:

 

exactly

Who are all these badass eastern bloc guys I'm supposed to be so awed by?

The Klits ARE good (especially Vitali) and credit to them for it, but the idea that these countries were producing an awesome array of fighters all these years and continue to do so simply isn't represented by reality

 

I was in my early 20s and my shit was ridiculous!:giggle:

 

:laughing:I remember that - "Piccadilly"... never knew it was you!

 

There were boundaries of different sorts.

 

such as?

 

Geography. Serfdom. Feudalism.

Sure, there were exodus from Eastern Europe....most of them Jews.

The Jews, like the Irish, had basically pitched up in the get-out-or-die scenario.

And we know how that worked out. You got your Rosenblooms, your Leonards.

6 years after the wall comes down, you got your Golota vs Bowe.

Pure coincidence of course. Riddicks fatness > History. I know.

 

you forgot the zillions of Italians

is it your position that those people would have become great boxing powers had they stayed put??ointlaugh:

they learned to fight HERE, they were street kids who found escape in the gazillion available boxing gyms where one of the biggest sports in the nation was practiced on a daily basis

Golota ushered in a new era?? really??

interesting that this glorious era of awesome eastern euro fighters (all 5 or so that have been worth a tin shit in the last 15 years) happily takes place several years after boxing has essentially disappeared from American network TV, alienating a large number of mainstream followers and professional and college basketball became more popular than ever before... very interesting, indeed

and yes, it's clear that Riddick Bowe's slovenly and chaotic existence out of the ring played no part in his decline... he was in great fighting shape for those matches... it's all just excuses by America, the guy was really a gym rat who lived a spartan existence... yeah, that's the ticket, Irish

 

I really don't remember that. They always did that with Vitali because of the Byrd fight (which I thought was uncalled for, but certainly not outrageous that they called him a quitter). I always thought they were cautiously bullish on Wladimir until the Sanders fight

 

I really don't remember that. They always did that with Vitali because of the Byrd fight (which I thought was uncalled for, but certainly not outrageous that they called him a quitter). I always thought they were cautiously bullish on Wladimir until the Sanders fight

 

Wlad was consistently fellated by The RING and HBO as a matter of policy prior to the Sanders debacle... It's revisionist history to suggest otherwise

 

Kellerman had a sports show on ESPN for about 6 months before they thought so little of him that they brought in a fact-checker to replace him.

HBO hires him because frankly there is no one else in the US that really gives a shit about boxing to work ringside. Merchant is old, Foreman quit, Roy Jones is finally back, Manny Steward. The only people left are old guys like Lampley, Merchant, Bernstein etc etc

 

My memory isn't the best but I really think you are right here. And imo it was with good reason that they all had high opinons of Wlad, he looked tremendous until Sanders shocked him. Obviously the Purrity fight aside, cast off as kind of a fluke

 

The Klitschko's aren't better than Larry Holmes, mikE.

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 104pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=139><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 104pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 5083" width=139><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 104pt; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl65 height=20 width=139 align=right>Jan-11</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 104pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=139><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 104pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 5083" width=139><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 104pt; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20 width=139>1. Wladimir Klitschko</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>2. Vitali Klitschko</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>3. David Haye</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>4. Tomasz Adamek</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>5. Alexander Povetkin</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>6. Odlanier Solis</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>7. Denis Boytsov</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>8. Chris Arreola</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>9. Ruslan Chagaev</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>10. Robert Helenius</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Vs.

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 145pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=193><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 145pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 7058" width=193><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 145pt; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl65 height=20 width=193 align=right>Mar-85</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl66 height=20></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>1. Larry Holmes</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>2. Pinklon Thomas</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>3. Greg Page</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>4. David Bey</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>5. Tim Witherspoon</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>6. Gerrie Coetzee</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>7. Mike Weaver</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>8. Michael Dokes</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>9. James (Bonecrusher) Smith</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 15pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=20>10. Gerry Cooney</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

yup he was a cover boy several times for The Ring and its sister publications... you would get a snarky writer here and there with an editorial not believing the hype, but Nigel Collins and the rest? forget it, they were promoting the hell out of him

 

Agreed 100%

 

You like to speak in absolutes even when you don't know what you are talking about:

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101907

Just in, courtesy of John:

1850s: 7
1860s: 54
1870s: 254
1880s: 3,334
1890s: 13,212
1900s: 27,914
1910s: 70,199
1920s: 204,523
1930s: 207,994
1940s: 179,320
1950s: 143,092
1960s: 96,397
1970s: 98,043
1980s: 127,795
1990s: 138,204
2000s: 181,764
2010s: 20,895

This was posted at the beginning of 2011, and if we are suppsed to believe that fighters are fighting more often now than they did in the past...well, I don't find that to be consistent with anything we actually do know.

In other words, you are wrong.

 

You don't think one or two fights might have taken place which aren't on boxrec's database?

 

honestly, man, you are SO FUCKING STUPID it amazes me

BoxRec DOES NOT HAVE COMPLETE RECORDS ... do you understand this concept???

BoxRec shows THOSE NUMBERS because they have FAR MORE ACCESS to verifiable information occuring VERY RECENTLY IN HISTORY

why are you so fucking stupid?

Right now, BoxRec can have documentation and results for a 4 rounder taking place between two 0-0 guys in Shitkick City, Arkansas and post them... Do you realize how many LITERALLY Thousands upon Thousands of professional fights that took place in, say, the 1930s are FOREVER LOST TO HISTORY???

BoxRec CAN NOT EVEN COME TO AGREEMENT over the early bouts of LEGENDARY, WELL-DOCUMENTED FIGHTERS like Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, etc. ... do you honestly think that they have every single pro fighter fromt he 1930s covered??? are you THAT stupid?

look at your fucking data, you imbecile, you believe that a grand total of SEVEN GODDAMN FIGHTS took place in a WHOLE DECADE (1850s) ??? REALLY??? You think that is COMPLETE INFORMATION???

You think the difference between the 1910s and the 1920s is 130,000 FUCKING FIGHTS??? Are you RETARDED???

Honestly, anybody who is such a moron that he thinks that BoxRec has managed to document every single fighter and fight in history deserves to be the recipient of a Lobotomy... you are a MORON, mIKE, a fucking MORON, that's why everybody with even a mild sense of intellect treats you like a village idiot on this site

 

Hmmm...looking at boxrec, I don't think there were too many appearances by Wlad on HBO before the Sanders fight...

Byrd wasn't, right?
Jefferson, Shufford, Botha, Mercer, McCline...which of these? Mercer and McCline, I think...not sure about the others

were there any before Byrd? Bostice? Barrett?

 

I know they showed highlights of the Wolfgramm fight, then i thought Barrett, Shufford, Mercer and McCline. May have to go to the film on Barrett and Shufford.