40 years old Foreman Vs 40 years old Vitali

Who wins?

 

Vitali... way too active

Foreman might land a good right now and then, but he is badly outworked

 

Almost-prime Vitali beats any version of Foreman

 

I'd favour a prime Foreman over Vitali I think. Not will cast iron certainty, but he'd be my pick by stoppage.

As to this thread - Vitali for the reasons cdogg gives, but Vitali might have to do a bit of undignified running about & ship the odd round, early at least.

 

agree

I think people tend to denigrate (nowadays) how preposterously dangerous young George Foreman was

 

Also how good at cutting off the ring he was. He was as good at that as anyone you've ever seen. So Vitali would be forced into trading with him closer than he was comfortable with, pretty often. Somebody would get KO'd and my money would be on it being Vitali.

Vitali survives Old George early and begins the brutal water torture from the 4th on.

 

exactly on both counts

 

Vitali at 40 by decision or late corner stoppage

Foreman in his prime by KO

 

Fat 40 Foreman gets the Arreola treatment and then some. He might well be legally blind by time that was over.

Big George impressed me in blowing away the Rock of Ages that was Joe Frazier, so its hard to pick against him, especially where the guy he is fighting only has a 10 inch reach advantage, a 50lb weight advantage and an 8 inch height advantage over Joe.

 

:bears:


Fucking idiots overrating Foreman to disgusting degrees. The fool lost to many of the largest guys he fought, including Ali who knocked him out despite being a non puncher. Another non pincher journeyman floored him...yet it's Vitali who took Lewis' one of the strongest punchers of all time, best shots.....yes Vitali gets stopped.


Vitali beats the living he'll out of any Foreman ever even at 40. Literally every advantage conceivable in the fight.....height, weight, reach, skills, speed, ring generalship, fitness....

Oh wait Foreman can punch(although for some reason I seem to be missing all of Foreman's brutal one punch KO's over anyone worth a damn...:scratcher:


Regardless he can punch(with long telegraphed clubbing punches with zero technique albeit)....and this is MM so Foreman" wins!

 

Vitali Klitschko impressed me in blowing away .. wait, he's never blown anyone away, let alone someone that would impress me

 

Vitali's also never lost to journeyman, and has never been dropped or knocked out, let alone by two guys who couldn't punch worth shit.

As far as Foreman's resume goes, it's as weak as Vitali's sans Frazier and I suppose Norton if you for whatever reason think Norton was some historically great fighter.

The funny thing is though that Vitali beats both guys easily as well.

Just because he doesn't "blow guys away" apparently makes him less of a fighter despite making guys quit after winning every single round.

 

If he do beat either guy it will easily without a doubt be his greatest victory ever.............

 

If Frazier or Norton fought today they'd just be another bum that Vitali padded on.

Perception is greatly skewed when taken out if historical context.

After Vitali battered Frazier, swelled his eyes shut and his corner retired him, people would have been wondering why Vitali was fighting some one handed, one eyed midget that should be at cruiserweight.

 

Vitaly beats any version of Foreman . Both versions on Sunday. I just watched Foreman Ali and it amazes me how crude and one dimensional a prime Foreman was. Vitaly tko 8 exhausted busted up Foreman.

 

Foreman was truly awful. He benefited from being an anachronism in the 70s as far as physical size and strength, but today it doesn't even particularly stand out. And worse when that bumbling retard came out of retirement, he avoided the Bowe's the Lewis' and pretty much anyone else worth a damn with size....they all would have beaten the shit out him. He instead picked on the usual glorified Cruisers that he was used to fighting.

Poor conditioning, close to zero boxing craft, average chin....just crude power, size and strength and a stiff jab(that wouldn't have done shit against Vitali without his usual height and reach advantage)...especially considering how absurdly slow it is.

 

Yeah, cos big bro is a highly-skilled, multi-dimensional fighter, who would have beaten 1974 Ali ::

 

Norton was the same size, but CARRY ON, chocha

 

Yes, in fact Vitali is a highly-skilled fighter, if boxing skills means to hit and not to get hit (which it usually does). And yes, Vitali would have a very good chance of beating Ali of '74, like it or not

 

Two things re: Foreman's style which I used to miss.

1) That defence of parrying shots from long out and smothering shots (hitting the other guy's biceps and inner elbows and deflecting the path of the shot) gets easily confused with having no defence since there's very little that's apparent to the eye and especially because, when it fails to work it looks awful/'bumbling'. It's very similar to what Vitali uses allot of times. It's old-school smothering and I very much doubt he employed it because he didn't know enough to cover up.

2) that clubbing right hand & his wider shots were part of what old timers called the 'virtual threat' by which he could have a guy so respectful of his offensive output that they would keep backing up in his prime to be cornered. By that I mean, the jab comes from beneath, the right comes from above and many shots comes from wide. It's analogous to old fencing techniques where guys would have one sword pointing up and one pointing down meaning you were opened up by having to defend both planes, rather than defending two planes on the same level. Old(er) school fighters used that form of right hand allot combined with an up-jab and more recently Lennox Lewis made frequent use of it too, as does Bernard Hopkins. Those clubbing overhand (and wide) shots aren't to be confused with him not having the craft to throw properly, they were part of what allowed him to limit his opponents output enough to back them up despite a low out put and poor hand speed.

To me there was plenty 'boxing craft', even though they weren't 101 textbook or pretty. Further & finally to my mind - if shit works really well (aka well enough to make you one of the greatest ring-cutters in the sports history in your prime, then competitive through old age and obesity) there's a always reason for it even if it isn't obvious to the eye, immediately. I don't know yet why that defence was chosen and worked so well for him in the context of his style, but i wouldn't confuse my not knowing with him & his trainers not knowing, much less there not being a good reason.

 

It's demented that such a self evident expression of common sense just won't sink in for some people.:scared2:

 

BTW, expanding on post 20, I'll hazard a good guess at the reason for that defensive style - it again, opened a guy up and created openings for him to land accurate, clean shots despite his pedestrian hand speed. Most his defensive actions were designed as the seed of an offensive position - there wasn't allot of simple blocking and batting, and even slipping and ducking were last resorts, the front line of his defence was all old school smothering and parrying shots out and away to put a guy off of position and balance. All working with his main deficiency of hand speed. Stylistic adaptations like that could define 'boxing craft', to me. There's more thought and refinement behind a successful style like that than we're privy to.

 

bang on... I dont get it either

Vitali is far superior to his brother, whose defense is clinching

 

I like it just fine as an idea (I certainly feel more strongly against Ali than Klitschko), but its preposterous as a notion.

Vitali not getting hit has more to do with the competition than it does his formidable arsenal of defense. You know, the expert upper-body shifting, the reflexive head movement, the uncanny timing. Like a giant Benitez.

The one quality HW he has faced in all his mediocre career hit him with every punch in the book over & over & over (and this isnt opinion) until his face was reduced to smithereens...but now he is punch-for-punch with Ali. LOL.

 

1. Vitali won four out of six completed rounds in that fight and outlanded this opponent clearly, so your 'none-opinion' is an incorrect one.

2. Vitali got hit some, but the punch that ripped his skin didn't land properly, it was the laces. If such injury was only caused by the fighter not being good enough, we should see several such injuries, yet it was among the worst cuts in the history of HW boxing.

3. This one quality hw was one of the 10 best, according to many one of the 5 best heavyweights ever and one of the few who could match Vitali's size.

4. Ali's style had nothing in common with Lewis, and '74 isn't a lock over '03 Lewis (in fact I'd pick Lewis).

LOL

 

He'd be pretty damn competitive, particularity against THAT lesser version of Ali. Wouldn't rule out a victory either....although not a 40 year old Vitali...

 

What? Foreman was slightly taller, quite a bit heavier and had a longer reach.

 

You could've just ended it there.....he's a fucking moron. He'd probably sick some guy like Jim Jeffries to beat every name listed in this topic so far.

 

Long, convoluted posts aren't really going to change that Foreman got punched cleanly in the face an absurd amount of times in the fights that people would actually fight back(see Ali, Jimmy Young)....I think every single right hand Ali landed landed clean and completely unimpeded.

Bullshit. Seriously, where do you hear this shit from? Does Bert Sugar send out a bulletin each month? What the fuck....Foreman swung like a wash woman with each and every punch because that's all he ever did. he didn't even think about it either, which is why the idiot punched himself away winging away like a tard against Ali. Foreman...to this day is a complete bumbling idiot with next to no wit.

More bullshit. Foreman was really good at one thing. He'd stick to that strategy to the bitter end and if he didn't get it, he'd fail miserably.
And what he did was incredibly basic and crude.

 

Cool. I like seeing things my way, it's more interesting. Maybe Im wrong (though giving more credit to the abilities of hall of fame fighters than you feels like pretty safe ground).