Who was the most complete out of the Fab Four?

Nobody says he's the best ever, nobody says he'd easily beat any LW ever. The LW version of Duran was the best of those four, Ramonza himself acknowledged that while calling him overrated.

Duran-Pacquiao would be a good fight but if you think Pacquiao has a chance in that fight, then you are overrating Pacquiao, not Duran.

Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky are as universally acknowledged as SRR as the all-time greatest at their respective sports. How exactly would you overrate them?

 

By saying that they are five levels above anybody else if in reality they are three levels above. Come on, this is simple :dunno:

 

You're getting silly now.

I agree with you in part and I agree with LG in part.

This is what it is:

Duran is NOT universally recognized as the greatest fighter ever, and for good reason. He has some glaring losses (lost to Laing, quit against Leonard, destroyed by Hearns, lost to Hagler and Benitez....lost to all of the fellow great fighters of his career). So anyone that implies that he's the greatest ever or unbeatable IS overrating him.

However

Jordan and Gretsky are generally considered to be the greatest in their respective sports and so they are beyond the ability to overrate them in general logical discussion.

 

athetic:

Your Canadian Citizenship should be revoked until your fix this e[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']gregious<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>[/FONT]
error!

 

I'm not saying that it's impossible to overrate Duran, I'm saying that I don't see him getting overrated. To me, overrating him would be saying things like "Duran beats SRR at 147 handily" "Duran is p4p #1 of all time" etc.

 

TRANSPARENT Case of YOU Overrating Roberto Duran...You're Basically Giving Manny Pacquiao a ZERO % Chance of Beating Roberto Duran....



REED:doh:

 

I think it would be a good fight, but yes, I would give him a 0% chance of beating Duran. This is because

- if we assume they're fighting in the era of same day weigh-ins, the Manny we're looking at is the featherweight version

- Manny never met a straight right hand he didn't like, Duran had one of the best in the sport

- Duran outfought a bigger, faster, stronger and considerably more skilled fighter in Sugar Ray Leonard. What exactly is Pac going to show him?

I think Pacquiao would make it competitive but I don't just think Duran would win, I think he'd stop Pac.

I think Floyd Mayweather Jr or Pernell Whitaker would stand a chance of beating Duran at 135, Pea moreso than Floyd. Pac? ZERO chance.

You are talking about the greatest lightweight of all time, vs a guy who beat David fucking Diaz. Who's overrating who?

 

And that right there is hugely, hugely over-rating Duran in my eyes.

Its like this - when I see a poll for Best LW Ever - in what I consider the most stacked division in history for legends, & Duran is consistently garnering 80-90% of the votes, hes over-rated. When people try to mount the case Duran has a better resume than Ezzard Charles, hes over-rated. And when people give a fighter as astonishingly brilliant as Manny Pacquiao ZERO CHANCE with Duran, hell yes, thir guy is getting over-rated.

Duran is one of the ten or fifteen best fighters the world has likely ever seen, & at his best, hest the best of the Faa Four - but dont think for a moment he isnt a considerable benefactor of...

A) A large demographic, likely the majority, having grown up on him, or listened to their parents having grown up on him.

B). The sentimentality behind a beloved fighter.

 

1st of All, Duran is ARGUABLY the Greatest Lightweight of All Time...

2nd, WHENEVER U Speak of Duran, U Always Use ABSOLUTES...By Stating Unequivocally that, "Roberto Duran is the Greatest Lightweight of All Time", What U're REALLY Telling REED is that a Guy like Pernell has NO CASE WHATSOEVER, for Being Considered Likewise, & that's a BULLSHIT Supposition, Homey...REED likes to SAY "Muhammad Ali is the Greatest Heavyweight of All Time", but REED can @ Least ACKNOWLEDGE the Arguments of Joe Louis & Others...Moreso, REED Would Never Give ANY Historical Heavy a ZERO % Chance of Beating Ali...

U're PRAISING Duran's Exploits @ HIGHER Weights, Even Mentioning Ray Leonard in your Post, yet NEGLECTING Pac's Altogether???:dunno:...Manny Pacquiao has had MORE Than Enough Success @ 140 & Above to B Given @ Least a SLIVER of a Chance to Beat ANY Lightweight in History, INCLUDING your Precious Roberto Duran...



REED:hammert:

 

Yes.

 

Absolutely, & a lot of people DO consider Duran UNEQUIVOCALLY the best LW of all-time, which is actually pretty ignorant of the rest of this enormously gifted & accomplished field.

 

I agree with you, but now you know how I feel when we get into it. ::

Btw,

Fuck Duran.

 

Would you say Manny Pacquiao has a chance of beating Sugar Ray Leonard, or not?

Re: your point and Reed's point about Duran being *arguably* the best lightweight of all time, that's fine, I have no problem with that statement. I personally feel he was the best, but I can see taking others over him.

FWIW I didn't grow up on Duran and my parents weren't boxing fans.

edit: Duran's victory over SRL in Montreal shits all over everything Pacquiao has done above 130. You can't seriously compare beating Margarito and Clottey to beating Sugar Ray Leonard.

 

Sure, I wasnt aiming at you, just speaking of my general experience demographic-wise.

I wouldnt say Pacquiao could do that, no. However I consider it relevant that Pacquiaos first weightclass he was a world force at was substantially lower than Durans, which is a partial factor. I would be more comfortable with Pacquiao being pittedwagainst a legendary LW/JWW than a great X who even won the MW crown.

While I dont see Pacquiao beating Leonard, I dont see it as a great barometer fo a Pacquiao-Duran clash.

 

Let me say it this way Loaded - I class Louis as thewbest HW ever - but if I saw poll after poll where he was an 80-90% majority pick over Ali, to me, Louis would be over-rated - even if I had him at #1 myself. If that makes sense.

 

Of course they are not. If you say that including prime Gretzky to last season's Minnesota Wild would have made the team win the Stanley Cup, then yes you are overrating Gretzky's ability to help his team. Yes, outside of goalies he was the best ever at that, but even in a logical discussion his abilities can be overrated

 

Complete in the sense that you have strengths in all (or most) areas of the sport and have as few weaknesses as possible.

Having every punch in the book, defense, punch resistance, stamina, ability to fight at difference distances and different styles (versatility), ring IQ, etc..

I'd say being versatile is part of being complete.

 

Exactly. This is what happens with Duran fans...ridiculous overrating.

Pacquiao has a LIVE shot at beating Duran at any weight from 135 to 154....if not 50-50....if not to be favoured.

 

oh, come on

such nonsense... 50-50 if not favored?

Why doesn't anyone seem to want to notice that Pac's opposition above 130 is nowhere near as stiff as it was at 130 and below?

Lots of big NAMES who no longer appeared to have big GAMES... You think Duran doesn't kick the living shit out of the Hoya, Mosley, Cotto, Margarito, Hatton, etc that Pac beat?

You think Pac beats Sugar Ray Leonard?

 

In All Fairness, C-Doggy Dogg, Duran LOST to Some LESSER Guys than Hoya, Mosley, Cotto, Margarita, Hatton, etc., ABOVE the Same Weights...154 Benitez was HARDLY "Radar" @ his Best...Kirkland Laing???...Going Life & Death w/Robbie Simms & Iran Barkley???...

Having Said All That, "50-50 if Not Favored" is LUDICROUS...@ the Very Least, Duran SHOULD B a 60-65% Favorite Over ANY Version of Pacquiao...REED Can Acknowledge that...

But Giving Pac a ZERO% Chance of Beating ANY Version of Duran is Pure, Unadulterated NUTHUGGERY...

REED:Lok:

 

Agree, 0% is absurd