To what extent has Floyd proven himself?

while still putting his ACTUAL WEIGHT Title Belt on the line!!!

All so he could spite Hearns and Duran and trump their "4 divisions" achievement with his "I've got 5!"

He was such a devious shithead, Leonard, I hate the fucking guy

 

The WBC is in business now.

I'm sure they can get Morales a few more belts.

Maybe because of the "controversy" over Mayweather-Ortiz the belt should be vacated. Morales vs Mathew Hatton for the welterweight title.

Look at them go at it!!! It's a war!

 

Demanding catchweights or asking a fighter who hasn't made 147 in 10 years to come to welter aren't really analogous to two guys the same size fighting at a weight where they don't have to cut water, especially when the guy who asked for the higher division is smaller.

 

P4P whatever....would that #5 P4P Ricky Hatton have any shot in HELL vs. Cotto, Margarito or Williams at 147? NO...

More people were talking Mayweather vs. Cotto....than Hatton, but as usual Mayweather took the easier fight...

But at least at that moment......not fighting Cotto..but fight Hatton okay..good enough for now..we can get to Cotto, Margarito, Williams afterwards..but it never HAPPEN...

 

Agreed. It's all about the water cutting.

 

I understand you're trying to be snide, but it doesn't really make any sense in this instance.

 

you need to stop with the bullshit. cotto wanted no part of mayweather jr when it was an easy fight to make.

 

The physical fragile and green Cotto at 140 w/ 18-20 fights...of course Mayweather wanted to fight that version of Cotto...

 

the cotto who was promoted by the same promoter mayweather jr had, who fought in the same division as mayweather jr. how many arum guys has he fought lately?

 

I think Floyd gets hated on for beating guys that Pac also beat but IMO floyd beating them was more impressive

Floyd stopped Hatton when hatton was a p4p'der and undefeated
he beat DLH in early 2007

pac beat DLH in late 2008 and DLH was MUCH more prepared and in shape for Floyd

 

:laughing:so true

 

word.

Yet Cdogg, REED and others wanna act like Lalonde was some Joey Maxim or something....

 

I never brought up Lalonde, EVER:nono:

 

You have a hard on for Cotto, as you do for every Rican fighter.

Hatton was all the talk at the time: P4P #4 or 5. Undefeated in 43 fights, stopped Tszyu, Castillo blah blah blah. "There's only one Ricky Hatton!!!"...blah blah.

He was 10X more relevant than Cotto at the time...AND he called out Mayweather. I don't recall that chinny Puerto Rican bumberass calling out Floyd at the time.

Hatton was a logical fight at that point in time. It was also a risky fight for Floyd, regardless of Floyd being the clear favourite, simply because of Hatton's accomplishments to date. Oh..and Floyd would have been a CLEAR FAVOURITE over the Puerto Rican Bumberass, Margarito and Williams as well. Make no mistake.

 

Well Leonard faced Lalonde in November 1988.


By that point in time....Nunn had beaten Tate and Roldan and Barkley had fucked up Hearns.

Why no criticism from you about Leonard facing a one-armed blonde Canadian hippy (::) instead of facing the bigger threats in "second to" Nunn and "The Blade"?

 

"Second To" Nunn was not yet considered in any way a big time fighter... Tate and Roldan were considered fairly solid but unspectacular wins... stop bullshitting and trying to make it seem that Nunn was being talked about by ANYBODY as an opponent for Leonard, because he WASN'T

And again, there wasn't anybody talking about Barkley/Leonard either... you forget, Leonard hadn't yet fought since the Hagler fight, it was assumed that he was probably retired

As for Benn/Toney/Eubank, you've already been annihlated for that foolishness

 

I DISTINCTLY remember (because unlike you I was a huge fan of boxing at that time)...NUNN being mentioned as the guy Leonard should fight next but commentators saying that Leonard would probably stay away from him at this point in his career.

It'll take me a while to find that evidence on youtube, but I remember that this is how I first heard the name of Nunn. Then I begin to follow the great Michael Nunn.

 

It was assumed that Floyd had retired after Oscar too....and it's only after Floyd's retirement that Cotto and Williams became factors.

Forget benn, Toney and Eubank...fine I concede that point...what about Mike McCallum?? McCallum fucked up both Curry and McCrory by the time Leonard fought Lalonde.

You say that no one was talking about Leonard fighting Barkley (and you'd probably say the same thing re McCallum) but no one was talking about Floyd fighting Margarito when Floyd moved up to 147lbs but for a few fringe shitheads. In the same regard I'm sure a few fringe shitheads were wanting Leonard to face McCallum, Bakley and Nunn.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Be consistent.

 

First off, the comments of a few hardcore boxing guys is not the same as public interest in a match. There wasn't any... and yes I WAS following the sport at that time and yes, unlike you, I have gone back to learn about everything else that happened before I was old enough to follow.

Nunn was a high risk/low reward fight for an old guy who'd pulled off his last great miracle against Hagler (regardless of whether or not you scored the fight for him) ... You can not compare Ray Leonard in 1988 with Floyd Mayweather three years ago... Mayweather was a still active fighter with no long layoffs, no two year followed by three year retirements, no retina issues... If Leonard had not retired in 1982 and had still been an active fighter but had chosen to face Murray Sutherland while showing no interest in Donald Curry or Milton McCrory, you would THEN have a fair analogy to what Mayweather did

 

When Floyd moved to 147lbs...the main guys for him to fight were, like it or not, Judah and Baldomir. NO ONE was complaining about those matchups at the time. The next big fight, which was always gong to be the fight once he settled the linear 147lbs bidness was oscar De la Hoya..a fight that many thought (myself included) may have been Floyd biting off more than he could chew.

Cotto and Williams were certainly irrelevant so Cdogg if you are saying that Barkley, Nunn and McCallum were irrelevant I EXPECT AND DEMAND that you say the same thing regarding Cotto and Williams...because they wer ein fact LESS relevant. Margarito was on Barkley/Nunn level of relevance.

After De la Hoya, Floyd retired. End of matter.

So the point of all of this that the same criticisms levelled against Floyd can also be applied to Leonard.

 

All Floyd needs to do to escape comp he doesn't want to face is to retire. And that's what he does. The ultimate in cherry-picking: retire if there's no chump opponents to face.

 

I can see why it has been perceived his way.

But the fact is that Floyd has faced the best and beat the best. He's retired more men than social security. :kidcool:

 

no they can't

Floyd's retirement came conveniently at the time when the trio of Marg/Williams/Cotto was the big force at 147... Baldomir was a DREADFUL fighter and Judah LOST TO HIM, then Mayweather fought Judah... how the fuck was that considered a better matchup than Floyd vs. Cotto, Marg or Williams... go back to read the board back then... who the fuck was clamoring for Floyd/Judah???

When Leonard retired (because of a legitimately dangerous injury) , he had cleaned out the division... Curry, McCrory, Starling were still up and coming, not yet star fighters... Mayweather retired (for no real reason) with three established, dangerous welterweights right there to fight... three guys that EVERYBODY (including YOU) knew damn well were better than Baldomir or Judah

You can not compare the two

 

You criticize me for bringing up Toney and Benn (Quite rightly) but then you talk about Cotto and Williams as matchups when Floyd first moved up to 147lbs?

Go back and do some research...

 

By the way the Leonard retirement I'm referring to, the one that is analogous to Floyd retiring after De La Hoya, was Leonard's proposed retirement after the Hagler fight. Stop trying to pull one over my eyes Cdogg you tricky debater. I'm not talking about the detached retina retirement or Curry, Starling. I'm talking about the post-hagler retirement and comeback. analogous to Floyd's De La Hoya retirement and comeback.

And YES...Leonard claimed that Hagler was going to be his last fight.

 

Are you bullshitting right now?

Who the fuck said "FIRST MOVED UP"?

I'm talking about him fighting Ricky Hatton and Oscar De La Hoya and then quitting boxing when the best three in the world were clearly Marg/Williams/Cotto... you can not compare Ray Leonard to that, you just can't

 

You can't compare floyd's 2007 retirement to Leonard, post-Hagler

you can't

You seem to be missing that when people talk about Ray Leonard's greatness, they aren't talking about 1988... they are talking about 79-82... The Hagler thing is icing on the cake

Floyd retiring when he did was analgous to Ray retiring in 1982, not 1987... except Leonard didn't retire with three worthy challengers sitting RIGHT THERE

 

fucker...

You were implying that he shouldn't have fought Judah and Baldomir...but instead should have faced Cotto, margarito and Williams.

Guess what? he faced Baldy and Zab when he FIRST MOVED UP. At that time the others were irrelevant (only Margarito can even the slightest case be made).

So concede the point that Baldy and Zab were the best fights at that time before DLH.

 

Actually no, it's analogous to to Ray retiring in 1987.

Ray was 30 in 1987 and Floyd was 30 in 2007.

Ray, in his prime had fought Duran twice and fought hearns (the undefeated and biggest threat in his division)

Floyd, in his prime had fought Castillo twice and fought Corrales (the undefeated and biggest threat in his division)

Leonard had beaten benitez for the title which started his recognition before hearns and Duran.

Mayweather had beaten Hernandez for the title which started his recognition before Corrales and Castillo.

Leonard fought Ayub Kalule for another weight class title.

Floyd fought Gatti, and Baldy for additional weight class titles.

At age 30 Ray faced Hagler and then retired (again)
At Age 30 Floyd faced De la Hoya and then retired.

Floyd's post 30s career is equivalent to Ray's post 30s career.

 

seriously, compare the opponents

it's a preposterous wipeout in Leonard's favor

STOP THIS NONSENSE