That fight was stipulated that there would be no decision and the fight would be a draw after time was up. As a result, it is still largely seen as one of the biggest blunders in MMA for bookies, and probably the greatest single value bet in history....I'd imagine Slice-Petruzelli was in that ballpark as well, but Cro Cop-Silva is probably tops. IIRC is was 20 or 25 to 1.
Trplsec, you know many fighters fight injured, but Rua went into the Griffin fight with a bad knee. Not a good strategy against a guy who has brutal leg kicks, a bigger frame, and the ability to move in and out fast. Now with the Coleman fight, Rua had already lost to Coleman and that can affect a fighter's focus and approach. He got Coleman out of there but didn't look that great doing it, and he was likely affected by knowing Coleman had already taken him down, breaking his arm and beating him in the process. Against Liddell, Liddell was done. Chuck had lost his previous fight by screaming headshot KO against Rashad. I think that for the fight against Shogun, Chuck was damaged goods. Rua has been a hot and cold fighter as some are, but the hot and cold has had more to do with his choices going into fights. Bottom line: going into fights injured or out of shape, you're looking for trouble. Against Jones, Shogun just fought a bigger stronger opponent who could shut him down completely without taking any real damage from Shogun. Griffin couldn't shut him down when Rua was better prepared, and Griffin was also 2-2 in his last four fights prior to Shogun. Other guys had laid the blueprint to beat a healthy Griffin, and Rua did it. Griffin has shown he can handle fast hands and pressure when he's able to use his footwork. That all being said, NFL players likely aren't kneeing heavybags or sparring partners too often. Rua probably doesn't run up and down astroturf too often either. Perhaps the fact that Rua uses his knees and kicks as weapons rather than running on them might account for additional scar tissue buildup?
Dude, I am absolutely not going to get into a discussion regarding what is tougher on your knees, football or MMA. I've had ACL reconstruction on both knees and I'll kick a heavybag all day long before I'd let a 250 lb linebacker tackle me at the knees. It's not even close. It's not even a debate for me personally. "Rather than running on them"? Wow, anyone that would qualify the use of an NFL player's knees as simply "running on them" probably has never had a knee injury or played or even practiced tackle football. Go ask an Orthopedic Dr. about plant and pivot sports as they relate to knee ligaments. Please go ask. LOL. That being said, being out of shape 14 months after knee surgery can't be blamed on the knee. And don't revise history. Rua looked like shit against Coleman because he was dead fucking tired against an absolutely ancient opponent. And the same was true against Forrest in their first fight. I like Rua. I thought he was great in Pride. I just get a chuckle when his fans bounce him in and out of his prime based on his last performance. That's all.
Rua was out of shape in every fight where he blamed his knee. Hell, he looked in terrible shape for Jones and the second fight with Griffin as well. For comparison sake, look at Court McGee. He also had knee surgery and in about half the prep time that Rua had, McGee had absolutely unearthly stamina in his last fight. Rua trained like shit. The knee is just a convenient excuse.
Yeah It's a bullshit excuse. If the result of the surgery is a horrible performance, might as well fucking retire. These guys get the surgery because it fixes them and sometimes it can even improve somethings.
It probably has more to do that he ruptured his ACL...which is a complete tear, and then proceeded to have three surgeries in less than 5 years, rather than tearing an ACL then coming back to form more than a year later. He's pretty much done as a super elite fighter these days. Two ruptures and likely a third(although it could've been just a tear, it hasn't been reported really) on a knee in 4 years will do that to a fighter. In the past, Shogun has looked good his second fight after knee surgery...every time. This time he won easily, but really looked like crap. He looked in worse shape than ever and was slow as hell, almost no explosion left.
I was gonna say this. To blame a performance on a knee injury isnt logical to me. If the knee (along with most injuries) is that bad youre probably gonna pull out of the fight. Lots of fighters go in to fights with dings and things like that but nothing serious enough to blame for costing them a fight. Its pretty obvious when Rua isnt in shape he looks like a totally different fighter
For one, Rua isn't a football player. For two, he wasn't getting tackled at the knees by a 250lb guy everyday. No football player gets their knees tackled everyday. It doesn't happen. He likely does kicked a lot more often in the knees than your average pro football player does however, particularly at Chute Boxe which is where he trained at that time. He did, however, have a cadaver's ligament put in his leg because it was so bad. The same leg he reinjured against Forrest. If you think he doesn't plant or pivot his knees in the UFC or Pride, I'd suggest you talk with an orthopedic doctor as well. As for revising history, he looked tired in the rematch with Coleman, sure. However, it was widely reported he went into the fight with Forrest injured. You're right though, I didn't play tackle football often. When I was a kid, we played soccer or rugby.
LOL.. "Because it was so bad". I have a cadaver tendon in my right knee and a strip of my patella ligament in my left knee. It's the same thing with anyone that's had their ACL reconstructed for nearly the last 3 decades. ACL reconstructions are always done using a ligament or tendon from a cadaver or from another ligament or tendon of your own. It has nothing to do with the seriousness. For the record, my knee with the cadaver tendon recovered much quicker than the one with a strip of my patella. Something about the removal of the middle third of the patella ligament made rehab painful for the first few weeks. And the fact is, you don't have even the slightest clue whether Rua was getting his knees kicked in training after his knee surgery. It's pretty obvious his training was minimal. On top of that, I can probably count on one hand the number of hard kicks Rua has thrown since his knee surgery. It's also hard for me to believe I would need to explain what plant and pivot means. Oh boy. So help a brother out. Is the 29 year old Rua still in his prime or not?
And there it is. A subtle blaming of Rua's loss to Jones on knee surgery. :giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle:
Yeah he's destroyed that knee about 4 times now. Daunte Culpepper probably has. Ahaealthier knee at this point. It's funny because Shogun can still beat dudes with here punching power, but it's sad to think injuries derailed him from becoming the best 205lber ever..
I guess you don't consider three knee surgeries bad. Ok, I don't know what to tell you there because even one knee surgery is a pretty bad thing. It's possible he didn't. It's possible that he did no kicking whatsoever or received kicks. Maybe his training was indeed minimal, but if you can count on one hand the number of hard kicks that Rua has thrown since his knee surgery, you must have a lot of fingers on that hand because he lit Machida's leg up in one fight alone. Having to explain what plant and pivot means? Yes, please do, and also the context since I said that if you think Rua doesn't plant or pivot with his knees in the UFC or Pride, I'd suggest you talk with an orthopedic doctor as well. Oh boy. Is Rua in his prime? He may very well be, but he also may have peaked early in 2005 and then had his prime blunted by the arm injury in the Coleman fight as well as the subsequent knee surgeries. Some fighters peak early and then never regain their form after injuries.
Yeah, well, that's not something I said so I don't know what to tell you. I said the use of a cadaver ligament or tendon in ACL reconstruction is the standard protocol and doesn't mean the injury is more or less serious. In other words, there are probably thousands of athletes world wide with cadaver ligaments where their ACL used to be that DON'T continue to use it as an excuse for shitty performances. The funny thing about Rua is that his knee injuries are ALWAYS to blame for his loses or poor performances yet (to my knowledge) he's never favored his knee in a fight. He's never limped during a fight. He's never blatantly avoided contact to his knee(s) in a fight. So what? The injuries only hinder him from getting into shape before a fight yet don't show any signs during his fights? The most hilarious assumption on here is the Rua went INTO the Griffin fight with a ruptured ACL. Seriously? The dude goes into the fight with Griffin with a ruptured ACL and the absolute only symptom is fatigue? OK... So next time you feel tired go to your Doctor and say I think I blew out my knee. :Lok:
Kicking in training is much different then practicing football buddy First off you make it a point not to kick the knee because it ends up hurting the person who is doing the kicking in a fight more during the short term. On top of that you most likely have 3 separate levels of padding protecting the knee The punishment your knees take in football practices would far surpass that of kick boxing/ muay thai training It hate to sound like Stringer but you cant make an argument on taking punishment in sports you didnt play cause its pretty much nothing more then an assumption
1. No doubt. 2. Not aware of the levels of padding during practice in both sports. 3. Really. Wouldn't have thought that. 4. Fair enough. Don't compete in football or mma. Stringer, you have hurt my feelings, but I can let it go.
The funny thing is, the football thing is dubious and highly irrelevant and jas nothing todo with Shogun and his injury riddled career.
Wow, Walel "The Gazelle" Watson caught Sandoval right in the teeth with that instep as Sandoval moved in. That was a grill cruncher for sure.
Walel has the same type of frame as Corey Hill, but he's even spindlier-looking. I'm amazed that kick didn't break HIS shin.
Holy Elbowfest, Neer! His mouthpiece actually slipped under the ring and they had a guy feed it up through the screen to give it back to him. He might get in trouble for not having a second mouthpiece as it is apparently part of the rules. Neer wins at the end of the second round with some chopping elbows.
