The more I think about, how well Floyd does above lightweight and against the absolute best fighters at the higher weights essentially boils down to how well he could take a punch. Would he capable of outboxing so-and-so? Sure, because he's a master at it. But he's certainly more susceptible to being hurt or knocked out compared to most of the really elite guys at the higher weights. Would Floyd have gotten up from that uppercut Vernon Forrest hit Mosley with in their first fight? I doubt it. I can see Hearns laying him out with a single shot. Leonard would hurt him. Duran would maul him. Benitez had pop too. So did welters like Napoles and Curry. Quartey had a powerful ramrod jab and a tremendous right hand. Oscar respected it. Got hurt by it. Can you imagine Floyd taking big shots from Quartey? I sure can't. Mosley landed everything including the kitchen sink against DLH in both of their fights and Oscar didn't budge. Shane considerably hurts Floyd with a garden-variety right hand. And he was old and washed up. Prime, late 90's Oscar was certainly also quick enough to hang with Floyd. And am pretty sure he'd damage him more with a single left hook than with a couple of the best right hands Floyd could muster.
Has Floyd ever been officially dropped by a punch in 43 fights? Floyd has faced punchers like Judah, Oscar, Mosley above 140lbs and not been dropped. Mosley buzzed him but the kind of punch that it was should have dropped him and it didn't and Floyd recovered seconds later. Who is this vulnerable Floyd that you speak of? Iknow him not.
The underlying analogy here is that if Floyd could take Tito's punches (and many of us doubt he could---at least to the extent that a dominating win by Floyd is far from a foregone conclusion), there would be no discussion on how well he would do against prime Trinidad. That's what makes it a 50/50 affair.
You're assuming Tito would be able to land something big within the 36 minutes. I sincerely doubt it. A prime Mosley or Oscar might well knock Floyd out at 147, but Tito is far too easy to read & nullify.
If we're talking about the pre-retirement Mayweather, I would agree. But I think the topic was about the Mayweather who has fought Marquez, Mosley, and now Ortiz. This Mayweather is more hittable. I still think he beats Tito. But its more dangerous for this version of Floyd.
Correct! PBF is much more in the pocket/Aggressive now then before. Tito chases him out of the ring here. He will not stand in there with Tito once he feels the POWER!
DLH did have real trouble making 147 for the Trinidad fight, iirc that was the fight where he weighed in naked with a towel in front of him.
But yeah, DLH did stay at 147 after, so whatever. Couple things re: "Floyd is more aggressive now" - so fucking what, it's not like he's forgotten how to fight any other way. Floyd is the most versatile and complete fighter in boxing today. Also, aside from the fact that Trinidad's power is getting severely overrated here (as usual), the idea of him setting his feet in concrete and then slowly swinging his left hook and actually landing it against Floyd makes me chuckle. Trinidad is absolutely made for Floyd. I can see arguments for a prime DLH and even a prime Mosley due to his handspeed, but Trinidad gets punked 100/100 times.
.. so he could fight Felix Trinidad? fyi Manny Pac is a better fighter than Felix Trinidad by several orders of magnitude. If only he had enough confidence in himself to take the tests and get off the juice ..
Yeah, anyone who looks askance at the fact that Manny Pacquiao is not willing to take steroid testing without special conditions that leave a hole for cheating big enough to drive a truck through is obviously a Flomo. According to Pacqueers.
it means he ran for his life the entire fight - that as good as Hoya's chin was historically, he, like Cotto against Margarito, could not find it in his heart to stay in the same place to throw anything back that was of any significance. instead, he skipped around the ring, "perpetually on the verge of getting hurt." Trinidad with his special wraps would've destroyed PBF. It might have been cheating, but Trinidad knew how to make the most of those wraps. He'd pound through PBF's guard the way he did Reid's.
Quick question - does iirc mean "if I recall correctly"? LG? I'm not up to speed with all these acronyms
Yeah but then he fought Coley, Mosley, and Gatti at 147 and wanted the rematch with Trinidad at 147. So how much trouble was he really having making that weight?:scratcher:
Delahoya is very smart. He was lucky he didnt fight the 154 version of Tito. He would have been stopped for sure.
Yeah, I've often found myself sitiing there as a serious boxing fan, with head in hands thinking "....why oh why would PBF choose to fight that guy, when he just could take the easier option. Damn him with his "seek out the greatest challenges to prove his greatness at all costs" mentality. Why doesn' he realise that legacy don't pay the bills, & that true boxing fans would rather see an undefeated record.
Tito peaked @154 IMO. He was too strong for Delahoya. He didnt want any part of that monster @154 and for good reason. He would have been ko'd within 10 rounds.
I think Tito would have pulled out a close decision at 154, possibly dropping or hurting Oscar late. At 147 Oscar was very mobile, quick, and could fight on his toes for the better part of a fight. At 154, he was flat footed, reflexes were slower, and he tended to get lured into exchanges. His fight with Vargas is the classic example of this. And his stamina was worse than it ever had been up to that point. At 147 in a rematch, Oscar would win, but I think Tito would have beaten him at 154 or above.
I think his stamina at 147 was worse than 154, though it wasn't great at any weight. He knocked out Vargas in the 11th round of their fight, at 147 he would have been wheezing and half dead in the 11th.
Against Mosley in the 2nd fight he faded BADLY from the 9th round till the end. Against Vargas he was actually from the 9th till the big left hand in the end of the 10th not doing that much either. His activity level decreased greatly and thats why Vargas was able to back him up with some of those bodyshots that he was hurting Oscar is. The thing is Nanda was even more faded. Against Castillejo the fight was fought at a slower pace and thus he was able to last the distance without fading TOO badly but at the same time he was touched up quite a bit by a guy who basically fought scared throughout and through sporadically. Its details like that which make me think that he was slowing down at 154.
Mosley was on EPO and steroids when he fought DLH, it's tough to criticize him for not being able to keep up with an enhanced fighter (yes, Vargas was juiced too, but he went about it all wrong). Plus, Mosley was responsible for taking away a lot of DLH's wind with bodyshots. Like I said, he's had stamina problems at every weight.. I really don't think it was worse at 154 than 147. He literally ran for the last 3 rounds of the Trinidad fight because he was faded, and that was without ever being hurt or in danger.
