Darren Barker is shite. Martinez is going to rip his head off.

People take the mickey, and that's their business, but Vitali has more variation to his game and he never gives suckers an even break. I don't see the attraction with Martinez, I really don't. He managed to get into trouble in both the Dzindzuruk fight and the Baker fight, incurring a cut in one {prompting him to scream at his corner "LA CICA LA CICA".."the cut, the cut"} and get a fat bloody nose in the next.

No doubt about it, his right-left, coupled with his speed, is very effective, but he's a one trick pony, and I think Floyd could take him. I'm not sure since just when did feasting on Eurobums make a guy great.

That's the great think about pfp, its like leprosy, Hopkins had it and now anyone associated with Hopkins via Pavlik, Taylor, Martinez etc also has it.

Johnny Nelson also thinks Martinez is on gear.

 

I did notice he was sniffing his gloves alot ::

 

I'm curious to see how he looks in his next fight but skill wise Donaire is certainly on par with Floyd and Manny...he's outboxed guys like Floyd and put guys to sleep like Manny.

He's got speed, power, boxing ability and the desire to fight...not stink outthe joint by running around the ring.

 

Well Johnny went a bit mad at the end and said...."This guy is getting faster and more powerful towards the end of his career...WHAT IS GOING ON HERE" ::

Then he looked at Spencer Oliver Twist, who had no answers.

 

What has he done Recently?

 

I'd much rather pay to watch Donaire than Martinez.

 

Donaire needs to be more active.

 

what does one have to do with the other? ortiz is nothing like martinez. and im certain mayweather jr wouldnt see the final bell if he faced martinez at middleweight. at 150lbs he could win because the guy would be a corpse.

 

Because you also thought Ortiz was going to knock Floyd out, or am I mistaken?

 

Donaire is better than Martinez, without question

 

that's rdiculous.

 

I thought ortiz had a decent chance to KO mayweather jr. in the first three rounds, going into the fight. mayweather jr. was sharper than i anticipated, as it transpired. but that has nothing to do with a middleweight fight against martinez who is a completely different opponent than ortiz.

 

Fair enough... and also despite styles I think we both agree Martinez would dominate Ortiz. He's certainly a much higher calibre fighter and bigger/stronger.

I give Mayweather a much better chance than you do against Martinez, kinda think you may be underestimating Floyd in general. But again as you said the fight will never happen. Clearly I am more confident of Floyd than he is

 

yup martinez is far better than ortiz in almost every facet of boxing. he'd crush the guy. and incidentally he only weighed 1 pound more in the ring vs barker than ortiz did against mayweather jr.

 

No it isn't

 

Let's put the question of how good Martinez is aside for a minute.

The fact is, a majority of fans were calling Martinez top 5 P4P before this fight. Now, "he's not that good."

Does anyone see the problem here?

 

I wasn't calling him anything. He's a titlist, and thats about it as far as I am concerned. He's a lock for substance abuse, he is the Michelle Smith of boxing, a guy who comes clean out of NOWHERE, with losses to the likes of Margarito and a draw to Cintron.....to become pfp big cheese. Well that cheese smells, and it really hums after the performance he turned in against WBO/EBU level Barker.

 

I don't quite understand your logic. So he wasn't on gear on Saturday, but he was against Williams and Pavlik? Is that what you're suggesting?

 

He's on gear and he's shit.

Barker would beat Williams now and probably Pavlik too.

Sturm would beat Pavlik now too.

Like I said, pfp Leprosy. One good fighter, 10 pfp guys.

 

So he's on gear. But even on gear, he's not that good. And the only reason he beat Barker is that he's on gear.

Ok. Well, that's a pretty bold view of things considering how little evidence there is that it's the case.

So he was able to beat Williams and Pavlik because he's on gear, but oh by the way, neither of those guys are very good. Oh, and the guy he just beat could beat them (not sure what point you're making here considering Martinez himself beat Barker).

Are you saying Barker then is Martinez's best win? And since Barker is his best win, does that make Martinez.....good or shit?

I don't know if I've ever stumbled across a more incoherent attempt to discredit a fighter than this. You may as well have just written:

Martinez = min(shitty, on gear)
Barker = max(Better than Williams and Pavlik, shittier than Martinez)

 

You remind me of Frank Costello in "The Departed".

Billy: "He didn't complain"

Frank: "That was his problem"

Billy: "Who said he had a problem?"

Frank: {pauses}......."I just said he had a fucking problem. There was a man who could have been anything"

Billy: "Are you saying he was nothing"

Frank:....{exasperated}.....I'm saying he worked at the Airport, alright"

I've never been on Sergio's case. Show me one thread where I have been on his case. I sat down at the weekend and watched him fight live and he was unimpressive and seemed to struggle with he basics of a desultory jab and a high guard. I don't think wins over Pavlik and Williams were all that much to begin with and I don't think that struggling with Barker does much to improve on them. I don't think that anybody who draws with Cintron and loses to Margarito should be regarded as being all that much and this increase in speed and power at his age has raised plenty of questions.

 

How would Martinez (w/o gear) do against Trinidad (w/o "magic" hand-wraps)

 

Trinidad kept his hands up and had the semblance of a jab. Gotta go with Trinidad.

 

Find one post of me ever saying anything good about Martinez

 

Who doesn't stuggle with a consistent high guard? The reason it's not employed by all fighters is the same reason Barker lost, which is that when it comes to offense, it's not a very sound approach.

Watch Clottey's fight with Pacquiao. Pacquiao, the greatest offensive fighter of our time, had problems getting to Clottey. Why? Because Clottey didn't move his guard from his face. He barely won a round either. But a lot of people seem to think that's somehow irrelevant.

Why was Wright so effective? His guard.

You can't trivialize the use of a high-guard, as if it's elementary. Barker's use of it may have bordered on elementary, given the degree his offense suffered as a result of it. But guys like Quartey. Wright. That style made them what they were.

The other thing is it takes top stamina to use it throughout a fight, which is one reason Barker probably faded like he did. Glenn Johnson's another fighter who uses the high-guard effectively, throws punches short enough for it to not interfere with his offense, and has the stamina to employ it the whole fight.

 

You're on Sergio's case now. Which is fine except you've made no coherent argument as to why.

 

Vitali Klitschko. And it has fuck all to do with his height advantage, because his brother struggles with a high guard all the time.

So kindly explain why Barker had as much, if not more success, offensively, than Paul Williams {2nd fight} and Dzindzuruk???

Because Pac doesn't have an orthodox jab of his own, because Pac was at a slight size disadvantage {Clottey is a wide, angular dude} and because Pac really isn't this Sugar-Ray-Clay-Jones-Jr hybrid that we've all been told he is. BANG!! BANG!!! WANT SOME MORE!!! BANG!! TRY TO STOP IT!! BANG!!! :wack:

So effective, against who? HArry Simon? That Argie guy? Come on, lots of guys figured him out, even that moron Vargas and Paul Williams and Bernard and even Taylor and...etc.

I'm not. Darren Barker is no Winky, as bad as Winky could be. Kevin Johnson came in with a high guard, a shoulder roll, a complete stink-tactic and ended the fight heaving for air and barely won a round. There is a way to figure these guys out and it involves more than a right-left-walkaround-right-left.

Agreed. Barker faded because he maintained a high guard and because he was inexperienced at that level.

 

so now a fighter can't have an off night? some of you act as if Martinez set the bar so hight that nothing less than perfection is allowed. :laugh11:

He is a good fighter "the middleweight champion" has earned his spot and one off night won't change that.

There is a reason none of the big names around 154 and 160 want any part of him.

 

He should get his ass up to 168 then and really test himself.

 

who are the BIG names around 154 and 160?