How did you HONESTLY score Mayweather vs Castillo 1?

Why turn southpaw only to pity pat and ward off with the right and line up nailer crosses if your left is fucked? He threw ALLOT of hard lefts and no hard right hands, from both stances. I'm pretty positive it was his right that was injured if anything.

 

This is retarded.

Seriously, you've never spent time in a gym have you?

 

:Hanzkiller:issed:issed:issed:issed:

 

bump

 

The more I read this the more I laugh. Ridiculous.

 

Don't really see what's ridiculous about it, in all honesty

 

So are you telling me that changing your stance mid-fight to the one that your not used to...doesn't compromise your defense?

If that's what you're saying it is you that have never fought before.

 

And throwing a cross from a different stance is almost as bad as serving (in tennis) with your weaker hand. It's very awkward.

 

The reason he'd turn southpaw is so that he can still throw the range finder (the jab)..but with the hand/arm that's not sore/tight. It's an instinctive reaction. The jab is the first punch in boxing..and it sets everything else up. If your jabbing hand/arm is compromised you'd tend to change stance so that you can jab with the other hand.

NOW...

If his right hand was the one hurting, he wouldn't have switched stances. There would be no reason too and in fact switching would simply put that very arm onto the front line.

 

A person can more easily win a fight if his non-jabbing hand is affected than if his jabbing hand is.

For example...when Danny williams dislocated his shoulder against that dude, it was his right shoulder (and williams is orthodox). It's a virtual miracle that he was able to fight on and win even in that state but TRUST ME...if that was his left arm (his lead arm)...he'd have had to quit there and then.

 

I'm laughing at your being "amazed" by it. Mayweather is a versatile fighter. It's not like we're talking about Ricardo Mayorga or Daniel Ponce De Leon.

Guys fight from opposite sides all the time. It's not a big deal. Most southpaws are natural right handers as it is. In most cases southpaws are converted to an orthodox stance.

I remember so much being made out of Hagler fighting from an orthodox stance against Leonard and how it meant Leonard was in his head blah blah blah...Hagler's a natural righty...fought southpaw on purpose.

It's silly to be amazed at something the guy has been most likely doing since he was a child.

When I worked with kids, the older ones we'd have them work from both sides once they had the basics down. Too bad you couldn't have swung by the gym...you would have been amazed by 15 years.

So the answer is NO it doesn't 'compromise" your defense because it's something you've practiced and are comfortable with. Floyd's an extreme talent...it's not a big deal.


The only problems guys who switch sides have is when they switch standing in front of the opponent. They're momentarily squared up and wide open from either side. To do it effectively the guys simply needs to completely disengage then re-engage. Once you're reset, it's business as usual.

 

I'd sooner look at 9 rounds of action and what he actually threw hard again and again than theorise. He didn't turn southpaw and start throwing the lead hand hard, like you'd expect, he just used it to keep JLC at length and distract him from crosses. Then went back to doing exactly the opposite when he switched back.

If he said it was his left after the fight it's a genuine puzzle to me.

 

Good post and I don't fully disagree.

Hagler is a bad example, though, simply because he is a natural righty. He was TRAINED to fight southpaw..so obviously he can do both.

Floyd is not a natural lefty and has not been trained to fight that way. He's an extreme talent and so can probably fight that way better than most natural southpaws but he's not going to be as effective in that stance as he would be in the orthodox stance.

You are correct in the momentary squaring up and making yourself vulnerable as a result. He was caught by Castillo many times because of this. But what is also true is that even without the squaring up a fighter's natural defensive tactics would be compromised by fighting in a stance they are not used to. This is common sense.

Take the shoulder roll for example:

Floyd tucks his chin into his left shoulder (protecting the left side of his face) while holding his right glove up to protect the right side.

If he switches to southpaw he'd have to reverse the tuck and hold...which would feel as unnatural as a person folding their arms the opposite way....

Come on dude. This is simple boxing 101.

 

He didn't throw the lead right hand hard simply because it's not natural for him to jab with his right hand. As such he therefore used it as a range finder. His style was compromised. You're solidifying my point. His dominant controlling jab was hurting his impaired shoulder and that's why he had to switch from time to time and rely on a Mosley type range finding useless jab.

 

Floyd would sure be competent from southpaw, he's not gonna fall to pieces, but you can't switch to something you've practiced for maybe 2% of your gym time vs 98% and not have it detract a little bit, even if you're Floyd.

 

Except he didn't throw hard rights from orthodox EITHER. He just continued throwing loads of hard lefts. Watch it again, he threw just enough rights to keep the threat of it alive and no more.

 

he turned southpaw for a round, basically

mountain out of a mole hill

there was nothing to indicate a truly severe injury (see Jesus Chavez versus Morales or Buddy McGirt in the first whitaker fight) ... though, perversely, in both of those instances it made the injured fighter MORE competetive because while it compromised their offense, it also gave their opponents far fewer options for countering... with a good shoulder the second time around, McGirt was whitewashed...

 

The best thing you've said here which is why you should be listening not talking here.

The reason you practice is to avoid the pratfalls you're talking about. We aren't talking about copycats like the Kendal Holt's (fake Roy Jones) or Larry Donald's (fake Ali)...we're talking about Floyd. Fighting is innate for him.

So yes, if we're talking about 95% of other fighters you'd have a point. But we are not.

 

Exactly. He did not fight southpaw that much. Sly acts like he fought half the fight as a southpaw.

 

Regardless of all this speculation - I am pretty certain that the injury (or alleged injury) was to Mayweather's left shoulder and his contention was he couldn't use his jab the way he wanted because of that.

 

Yeah Im probably wrong. I don't see much impairment, except some discomfort thru the 3rd and 4th rounds, either way tho

 

Does anyone remember the state of the lightweight division at the time? Who besides Castillo and PBF were contending at that point? Who the other champions were? It occurs to me Castillo II was the final fight PBF fought for competition's sake. After that, his competition has been pretty weak.

 

The Ring ratings for May 2002 (inbetween both Floyd-Castillo fights):



Floyd Mayweather Jr., Champion - WBC champ

1. Jose Luis Castillo
2. Stevie Johnston
3. Paul Spadafora - IBF Champ
4. Leonard Dorin - WBA Champ
5. Juan Lazcano
6. Angel Manfredy
7. Artur Grigorian - WBO Champ
8. Raul Horacio Balbi
9. Alejandro Gonzalez
10. Julien Lorcy

 

2-2-8

 

Floyd-Johnston would have been a nice fight.

 

Agreed, altho he had been coming off the two tough fights with Castillo (a loss and a draw) and then was fighting a tough 12 round win over Angel Manfredy.

I am not sure where Cesar Bazan was in these rankings.... maybe my link had Alejandro Gonzalez mixed up with Bazan. He had to be no worse than top 12 at the time.

 

Hitman, I think Bazan had fallen out of the top ten by then after Castillo battered him sometime earlier

 

This was the last good fighter in his prime Floyd fought...interesting.

 

right. is mayweather jr. currently in his prime?

 

Interesting Q. I don't think he's declined much, actually. He's a gym rat who's taken no punishment - fresh as a daisy. Also, I think Floyd's continued to hone the negative/legally questionable (but also innovative) aspects of his style and that helps compensate for him slowing down a bit. Similar to how Calzaghe and Vitali honed their idiosyncratic aspects to peak after they'd slowed a bit.

I wouldnt say hes still at his absolute peak, but i wouldnt say hes 'past prime' either. Not long left, but I think he can stay at the top of his game for at least another 18 months.