What type of fights do you like to see most?

Chambers yes, Peters, no.

I forgot about the Chambers KO. That may be the only true *from-your-senses* KO I"ve ever seen from him.

 

Neither could the guys he laid out. Its called "Nuisance".

 

Also not true.

 

Peter was overheating by the time he was laid out but I doubt he was ready to dissect the fine print of any legislation by the time the fight ended.

 

No....it is true. You kicked it off mate.

 

No, you kicked it off with you typical trash.

Too many of these "virtuoso" performances involve hand-picking and weight-stipulations, designed to make light of an ostensibly "hard fight"

 

Which is why I don't like them.

What's so hard to follow about that??

I was asked what I liked, and I answered, and then gave a reason for why I liked it, why I preferred it.

You didn't have to disagree or agree or say anything.

Ali vs Williams was virtuoso performance. But Willams had one kidney and half an intestine. So I prefer Ali vs Frazier.

Even Hut agrees with me. Floyd vs Corrales was the business. Floyd vs Marquez was a farce.

 

How cold is cold? Ref stops it when someone goes down, 10 count, 1000 count, what? Out of Wlad's recent fights, clean KOs (not stoppages) have been Peter, Chambers, Thompson, Austin, Brock, Byrd etc. Apart from Tyson, has there ever been a heavyweight champ with more 'out cold' KOs? I can't think of one right away, not Foreman, Lewis, Frazier, Holmes... :dunno:

 

You're just confused, mate. I'm sorry for being so hard on you.

 

It appeared that Little had a magnet in his left glove and Minami had one on his head. Every single jab Little threw landed squarely. That fight in a vacuum and you can't really tell if Little had a terrific jab or Minami had atrocious defense.

 

There's a distinction between 'laid out' and beaten up until you don't want to continue or beaten up until the ref decides you shouldn't. The Chambers KO qualifies and so does Austin at a push although that was a legitimately fast count & had the ref started his count at 3, 4 max instead of 5 as he did, Austin would have made it.

Wlad has great natural power but he doesn't turn over his punches the way a Louis, Lewis or Frazier did. Which in the context of the original point (him being a fighter who 'Who?' who loved fights which end in dramatic KOs should love) means he isn't gonna scratch the itch (& not due to his unforgivable whiteness/non-Americanness).

 

That is not an argument. You strike me as the sort of kid who tried the "two for flinching" routine in school and nearly always got it wrong and got beaten up.

 

You think I'd have a serious argument with some psychopath who can't follow the plot?

You're a waste, mate.

 

Which out cold KOs of Lewis are we talking about? Once I can think of at championship level are Rahman II (even though Rahman was in his senses, his legs didn't carry him), Golota and Ruddock (both stopped when the guy was down and in his senses but obviously unfit to continue). Other fights were stoppages: if you count for example Lewis-Botha, then Wlad-Brock must count too etc.

Out cold KOs are very rare. Remembering somebody's highlight reel gives a wrong impression of them

 

I'd say Klitschko KOs from both brothers almost invariably involve some judgement that the opponent has taken too much - whether from the fighter themselves to stay down, their corner between rounds or the ref.

'Laid out' to me, means that a fighter couldn't possibly physically continue. Not with a gun to their head, not for an extra $3m onto their purse. That's a true 'KO'.

I think the Klits are masters of TKOs (and in a purely sporting sense that is not a criticism, it achieves the same end).

 

Current Wlad lacks the incentive, he also has Manny Steward giving him more conflicting instructions than a pissed-drunk U-boat commander.

Wlad vs Chambers was pretty virtuoso, Wlad won every round and finished on a one punch KO. Chambers seemed pretty talented and had negotiated heavier, harder-hitting men before.

I would respectfully contend that the physical obstacles facing Marquez were not any greater than those facing Chambers.

And when you factor in how much better of a fighter Floyd is than Wladimir, well, that pretty much evens the field.

Probably the greatest virtuoso fight of all time is Pep-Saddler II. You are basically talking about a former cripple with no punch dealing with a featherweight Thomas Hearns.....Floyds rotator issues vs Castillo are put in firm context by that.

 

Good point, I've actually made the exact same point you are making now against you in a Tyson-Lewis power argument ::

So in the spirit of consistency I'll totally concede that. But I still think lewis was a far more dramatic finisher and far more devastating puncher than either Klit brother. Neither of them turn over their punches fully, they're very conservative in their punching technique.

 

What's the plot brother? Make sure we don't annoy any of the North American combine by daring to suggest that some of todays BS fights might be less virtuous than first suggested????

 

Yes but they are virtuoso. :l1:

 

More garbage.

 

NOt the type of virtuosos I like!:stir:

 

Seriously, I find guys who get by on skill rather than unique physical gifts infinitely more pleasing to watch. Purely a personal preference.

 

Plus the Klitschkos are devil honkeys.

 

But, Floyd/Marquez!!

 

Agreed. On a finer point, you could say that people who don't need to end a fight on one shot are better fighters who turn in better performances. Floyd, both Sugar Rays, Hagler are just some examples. People who rely on power are invariably found-out.

 

Was not a virtuoso performance from Floyd. :dunno:

I really do fail to see what is so psychopathic about this observation.

 

That you think we disagree.

 

Difference between relying on KOs and having the ability. I don't think the Klitschkos have the ability and that's part of why they just flat out aren't exciting to watch.

I like watching them, but they are low-low drama.

 

Precisely. Thats why I quoted Pep vs Saddler II.

Basically you got a little gimpy fish-and-chipper with a fly-swat for a punch laying traps and hatching escape plans for 15 full rounds whilst being followed around by a guy whose dick had more girth than Peps forearm and who had already knocked him clean out.

 

In fact, I can explain the Klitschkos lack of appeal better and with one word. They're incapable of .......

'Abandon'.

Pernel Whitaker couldn't KO anybody, but you got the sense plenty of times that he was willing to take a risk to get one over on a guy, to hurt either their face or their ego. Mayweather ditto (early on, anyway), Locche ditto, Pep ditto, Ali ditto. It's not just about risk taking, it's about passion for what you're doing.

Lewis never really showed that and that's why I always found him boring even when he KOd guys.....the Klits even (much) less so than Lewis.

That's why they're boring.