What would have happened if Lewis was allowed to continue vs. McCall?

Lewis would have won. McCall was nothing. He ponced on that one victory. Bruno handled him. At Wembley. Dig it.

 

Lewis is my favourite fighter of all time, so I'm going to say he would have held like a motherfucker and seen it through on points.

I will say this though, McCall tends to have this image of a guy who fluked it against Lennox and landed a lucky punch, I don't quite go along with that. I think Oliver just happened to be a guy who matched up well with Lewis, both in terms of physical attributes and style, and would always pose him problems in the right state of mind.

 

There was a world of difference between Lewis and McCall in terms of their power and strength.

McCall pretty much lucked out.

 

McCall could hit like a mofo and was a strong dude.

 

:: No, he didn't.

 

Bowe was the real champ. Throwing the belt in the bin and sweating his way down to 240 should not be held against him ever. Also, its unlikely that a MSG audience would ever riot for Lewis like they did for Bowe, so that pretty much seals the deal. Bowe was the real deal, Lewis was an English tea-drinking queer.

 

Yep, he did. :laughing:

 

I would say he did.

 

Putting aside how you attempted to make your point..... i agree

it's absolutely true that anyone around at the time with a hint of objective thought knew that Lennox had every bit as much of a claim to being the heavyweight champion as opposed to Riddick Bowe who threw away a title belt and invalidated the whole Bowe/Holyfield, Lewis/Ruddock tournament rather than face Lennox in the ring. Lennox had as much a claim as Holyfield too who eeked out bowe then lost to Michael Moorer ffs.

More importantly, at the time of Lennox v McCall the titleholders were Michael Moorer, Lennox, and Herbie Hide. Lennox didn't have a legitimate claim on being the heavyweight champion of the world in Sept. of 1994? . ok.

 

It's called lineage - Tyson-Douglas-Holyfield-Bowe-Holyfield-Moorer

Lewis was DUCKED. It was horseshit. Lewis had a legit claim as the best heavyweight out there, but he had no claim - none - to the heavyweight championship.

And I like Lewis as much or more than anyone here.

 

Moorer had the only claim.

 

So you're going by the linear title argument. That's fair. I think the split that Bowe effected by dumping the belt gave Lennox a valid claim. Regardless, the Lewis-McCall fight was a heavyweight championship fight with all the implications and significance attached to a fight of such magnitude, so my point still stands exactly as it had before this battle of semantics ensued.

 

That's probably what was gonna happen. BUt the stoppage was bad( not terrible as Lewis was very wobbly but still ), you should give a world calss fighter the benefit of the doubt, especially in the early rounds when he hasn't taken a beating.

 

And I disagree fundamentally with that point.

I try my best to ignore belts. Did Ruiz have a claim when Lewis dumped the WBA rather than fight him? I don't think so. It goes both ways.

Bowe ducked Lewis. It was shamefull. But lets just say, as was the case for a century before Bowe dumped the WBC, there was only one belt. Bowe still would have held it. And by the time Lewis lost to McCall, it would have been Moorer.

But, yes, in name, that was a fight billed for the heavyweight championship. But then we get to another point that has always irked me... the champion should get the benefit of the doubt, you have to beat the champion convicingly to take his belt, etc. All bunkum, IMO.

 

If there was only one belt, and Bowe refused to face Lennox, his #1 contender, what happens then?

The Ruiz vs. Lennox argument - that is why i stated a LEGITIMATE claim to being heavyweight champion of the world.

Finally, my point has nothing to do with needing to beat the champion convincingly. My point advocates a convincing result either way in a fight that is for the heavyweight championship of the world (or, if you will, a fight for having a legitimate claim to being heavyweight champion). Never once do I state that McCall should have beaten the champion with a more definitive result in order to take his title. I stated that this fight was for the heavyweight championship of the world, and a fight of that maginitude should be given a little more leeway in terms of the final result. Don't call it off so early, let it go and let these guys fight a little bit.

 

Then he's ridiculed for ducking the #1 contender... it's not a perfect system, I know. But, for me, it's better than the alternative of multiple men claiming to be champion of the same world. I've always been very strict with that, especially at heavyweight (where fighters can't move up and confuse the fuck out of everything)

The Bowe/Holyfield, Lewis/Rudduck series was really a tournament in the sense that it wasn't in place to crown a true champion... one already existed.

As for your last paragraph, my bad, you're right. That's exactly what you said. Agreed 100% there... but that goes for any fight between top fighters, IMO. A belt doesn't have to be on the line for me to think that way. I certainly feel the fight could have continued.

Now stop making me argue against Lewis. :nono:

 

In my mind, I have him the Champ from the time he destroyed Golota.

Pugilistically, Bowes "wins" over Golota were spurious affairs.

Bowe didn't want any piece of Lewis. Golota dominated Bowe. Once Lewis was through with Golota that did it for me.

Of course, this was somewhat later than 1994, the same year Lewis supposedly accepted stepaside bread from King to leave Tyson alone.

So Lewis has himself to blame for not being the man until 1999, but for me, 1997 he was the man.

 

What did Bowe have to do with anything by '96?

 

Again semantics I suppose - but I say if there is one belt and the champ ducks his number one contender.... he loses his belt.

This is all pretty irrelevant. The point is still the same. Important fight, big deal, major siginificance.... let them fight

 

Not throughout the history of boxing.

Agreed with the rest.

 

What part of 1996 are you referring to?? The last few weeks of 1996?

On January 1st 1996, Bowe was The Daddy, his last fight having been a KO victory of Evander. He had one defeat at that point.

By December 31st 1996, he was finished, despite still only having one defeat.

With Bowe finished, with Golota falling to Lewis, that pretty much left Lewis the man.

Tyson, and Holyfield, of course, would both lose to him in due course.

 

Right, but that one loss was for the title. He never got another shot.

I agree that Lewis was clearly the best fighter in the division after that destruction of Golota, however.

 

Yep. & I'm pretty sure Lewis would have.
It was a bad stoppage.

 

I think the first scenario is more likely but really both are pure speculation. There's not much in the way of evidence to support either.

However Lewis appeared border line out on his feet and there was plenty of time left in the round. It wasn't a Chavez-Taylor situation where McCall would have had to race across the ring. Lennox would need to have clinched, but on such unsteady legs? I think he would have went down again, even without a real solid shot required. Ref would have stopped it after the second KD.

 

Lewis would have go on to win the fight. He would have clinched and fought stink and jab and clinch and completely shut McCall down. I have always felt that Lewis should have been allowed to continue. I've seen fighters far more hurt be allowed (Gatti-Ward round 9 for example).

 

Bowe in 1996 has nothing to do with the heavyweight champion(s) in Sept 1994 right before Lewis v McCall

 

Bowe was pretty relevant on the eve of the first Golota fight, bearing in mind that his fight just previous to that had been a KO of Evander Holyfield.

Of course, McCall vs Lewis part UN stands on its own two feet.

I was just saying that with Bowe gone, and Golota losing to Lewis, that made Lewis the man in my mind.

Lewis should never have done that stepaside thing with Don King and Tyson.issed:

 

Who knew you thought so highly of Bowe. Learn something new every day. :bears:

 

I don't. I merely find his existence, and the beatings he took, useful.:Hanzkiller:

 

Oh.