A Prime Mosley vs Today's Pacquiao @ 147

I asked for the list of 100 since you're implying it's so easy to list...seems you'd rattle them off quickly.

Secondly, since you "never" take a fighters word, my question still remains...how do you determine if a guy has or hasn't been hurt?

My point was, (which is why I provided the Tyson, Forrest and Hopkins examples) is sometimes it's not obvious to the naked eye a guy has been hurt.

Therefore, since you "never" take the fighters word, what is your criteria? Facial expressions? Knockdowns?

I've yet to see an answer to this question.

Take Whiskey's reply....certainly fair because he sees both sides of the equation whereas you're speaking in such absolutes (when it suits whatever argument you're making at the time) it paints you into a corner.

In reality there are two bits of homework...the rest of the 99 and the non-verbal proof a guy has been hurt.

Hop to it.

 

by watching a fight, seeing how he's reacting to the shots... if his legs buckle, his balance gets shaky, he covers up after taking a shot, all good indicators a guy has been hurt... and of course, knockdowns

I'm not hopping to anything. If you are too dense to see how little worth a fighter's words have in debates like these, then there's no hope of ever getting anywhere talking about it with you

Incidentally, what are your sources for the stories about Hopkins and Tyson?

 

Whitaker actually tried in those fights and was way further gone than Mosley... he won the Pestriev fight anyway

I never saw Whitaker grin and touch gloves while losing 120-107

It amazes me how you denigrate a guy like Whitaker and call different fighters faggots while blowing one of the dumbest, fakest fighters of the last 20 years

 

Tyson...TYSON said this...but again...you won't believe it because Tyson said it.

The Hopkins fight - boxing writer I'm friends with was at the fight and post fight press conference.

 

never use "blow" in a sentence containing Pernell's name and not attribute it to him.

:nono:

 

yeah, if only he were as good as that master boxer Slugger Shane Mosley:wack:

Mosley should have taken some Coke, might have made him more interesting

 

Tyson says lots of things

Watching that fight, did you score it for Ruddock? (the second one anyway) I mean, after all, Tyson says Ruddock kicked his ass and isnce word is apparently bond, I imagine you had a whitewash for Ruddock

Your friend saw Hopkins put his pants on???

Great sources there, you are easily persuaded

 

if a fighter is a faggot he is a faggot. mosley is a heterosexual fighter, nothing fake about him. he took the tough fights, even when it was clearly not in his best financial interests. he had a hall of fame career, and in his prime he came to fight. he is competitive with and could beat any lightweight in the history of boxing.

 

Don't slip away from the subject...where's the other 99.

 

it wouldve been funny if whitaker had faced mosley instead of bojorquez. Im sure he wouldve "tried" more than mosley did against pacquiao

 

I was a fan of Pernell...I wouldn't have wanted to see that fight.

Didn't Pernell overdose that night or the following night?

 

not sure. i like whitaker as well, its just amusing to me how cdogg thinks whitaker was this brave, unbeatable warrior and mosley was an over rated pussy. if they had fought at any weight it would have been a highly competitive fight.

 

sure, if he weighed 147 pounds

Whitaker was a greater, vastly more dominant fighter by light years

 

All over the place, if you'd bother to remove your head from your ass

 

his effort against Trinidad would seem to indicate that he would have done just that

Whitaker was more shot against Tito than Mosley was against Mayweather or Pacquiao and he still went in there and tried his best to win, no glove touches, no grinning

 

Whitaker was a dominant champion for years, when he lost rounds it was a big deal and he came to fight always

Mosley was too dumb to do anything except lose to Whitaker... Yeah, I'm sure Whitaker would be totally dumfounded by Mosley's incredible arsenal of tactics:wack:

 

yea? you think whitaker would shut him out and have an easy night? you are very biased when it comes to these two fellows.

 

You do know Whitaker was an asshole. Have you come across that in any of the books you've read/

 

no, but he'd win 8-4 pretty handily... Mosley can't handle angles, has trouble with the jab, and from a southpaw on top of it? Can't see him being able to have much success

 

who cares? What does that have to do with his ability as a fighter

Sugar Ray Robinson used his wife for impromptu sparring sessions, what the fuck does that have to do with what he did in the ring?

 

ya?? based on what exactly? he was a junkie but he hardly took any punches his entire career to that point. mosley had been in plenty more tough fights, more hard rounds of sparring, and had taken hundreds if not thousands more punches. and was 39 years old against pacquiao.

i think whitaker receives too much credit for getting his ass whipped vs trinidad. he used every bit of craft and guile to survive that one. if the referee wasnt incompetent then whitaker wouldnt have been able to keep sitting down when he was cornered to get out of trouble. is that considered bravery in your book, chief?

 

I'm trying to figure out why sportsmanship bothers you.

Besides, you seem like a guy whose more focused on past fighters than current fighters. With that said, I can't see how you couldn't see Mosley poses problems for current and or past fighters.

You talk about him like he's a scrub devoid of skills. Is Shane an all-time great? No. Did he have a hall of fame career? Of course. First ballot? Maybe not in my book, but he was no scrub.

 

Being a junkie pretty much negates everything else... he was used up, you could see it, hell it was pretty evident in previous fights... that kind of lifestyle will burn a guy out in a hurry, especially if he's in a sport where you have to take care of your body to last

You can see it in how they fought... Mosley's strategy, if you could call it that, was unchanged against Pac and Floyd, he did the same thing he always had, he just didn't have enough quickness left to have much success and in the case of the pacquiao he appeared (not just to ME but to most observers) scared of getting hit... Whitaker altered his game completely, he obviously didn't have much in his legs anymore and basically came right at Trinidad for 9 rounds, even did alright here and there... it was until the last three rounds, when he was clearly spent having clearly tried to find a way to win, that he resorted to surviving

I'm not saying Mosley wasn't old, but prior to Floyd he'd looked the best he had in years against Margarito

Whitaker hadn't looked good in a long, long time when he fought Trinidad... hell, he hadn't fought in a long time

But he absolutely tried harder to win that fight than Mosley did to win the Pac fight, I don't see how you could objectively see it any different

 

Never said he was a scrub, but he's not in Whitaker's class by a long shot

Sportsmanship is fine... meek surrender is a different story... you think Mosley was being sportsmanlike against Pacquiao??? "LOL, you sure are scaring me, let's touch 'em up" ... WTF, muzse?

the one thing I actively DISLIKED about Whitaker was his taunting of guys... But, again, what that has to do with how great he was is beyond my comprehension... Roberto Duran was one of the most unsportsmanlike guys that ever fought, but does anyone give a fuck if they are rating him objectively?

I liked Whitaker because he was a master boxer and because he fought anyone willing to fight him and he beat guys soundly, left no doubt.. whenever anyone was competetive, they got an automatic rematch and the result would be a less competetive fight the second time around... Say whatever you want about the guy, his personality, his failings in life, has nothing to do with what he did in the ring... In the ring, the guy was one of the all-time greats and he didn't duck anybody

 

Do you give Whitaker extra credit for being a decent fighting junkie?

 

You realize Mosley had done this many many times before and yet you see it as a sign of weakness only for the Pacquiao fight.

he and Oscar touched gloves prior to nearly every round and it didn't seem to be a sign of surrender nor keep him from getting in Oscar's ass.

 

he touched gloves with Pacquiao and then stayed as far away as possible, do you see the difference?

do you give him extra credit for being such a sweetheart?

At least Whitaker wasn't roiding up and enjoying a 10 pound fight night weight advantage over his opponents and he still beat them (a better class of them, to boot) more clearly

If anything, Whitaker was using substances that caused a DECLINE in performance, not an enhancement

but, still, better to be a smiling cheater than a surly winner

 

so your issue isn't the act of touching gloves it's about the lack of fighting. if that's the case then say so. Referencing glove touching weakens your argument seeing it's clear it's something Shane has done previously and did not signal surrender.

I'm trying to help you form more clear and well thought out responses. Take my advice.

 

your condescension, in lieu of a winning argument, is touching

 

Trying to be a good sport in this debate sans the glove touching.

Interesting considering I'm Duran in this to your Shane Mosley.