Quarry lost every round but he didn't have difficulty hitting Frazier. I'm not talking about rounds lost or won, I'm talking about hitting Joe "Heavy Black Pep" Frazier in the face.
"Quarry is landing often! Frazier keeps his gloves low and is an open target for punches to the head. Quarry is landing frequently..." - Howard Cosell Watch for yourself as Joe Frazier does his best Pernell Whitaker impersonation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqGZIYpOF9M
Cosell:::wack: Your problem is that to you, defense is either "Mayweather/Pep/Whitaker" or it's NO DEFENSE Frazier is not Tex Cobb, Sly And David Tua had the timing and intelligence of a garbage can... If you think Frazier is going to have trouble negotiating Tua's wide left hook and countering to head and body, you're nuts... If you think Tua has the desire or the nerve to keep forcing the issue on a guy who is blasting him to the body, then you never saw him fight
Frazier is probably the most overrated Heavyweight in the history of the division. Dude beats a rusty Ali, who basically clowned around with him for a large part of the fight and just hung on the ropes with little head movement...and suddenly he's some boxer with good defense. Frazier was a good fighter, but he wasn't great enough to overturn the huge deficit in size and chin in a Tua matchup. Sorry.
total revisionist history, every word of it He does not have a huge deficit against Tua at all... he's as tall or taller and gives up about 15-20 pounds (if we are using this amazing mythical Tua of the Ibeabuchi days) at best... 15-20 pounds doesn't mean much of you are a skilless, grit-less shitcan God, the heavier, fatter Tua would have even less success
Frazier defeats the consensus greatest and later brings him "next to death" in the great fighter's own words, and he's been turned by that same fighter's biggest fans into a bum with no skills and no chin... it's sickening
The way Sly shits all over Frazier is ridiculous. His complete lack of objectivity is headache inducing. Sly is a big Ali fan...so of course he has to trash Ali's biggest rivals (Frazier/Norton).
Its a close fight. Closer than most are prepared to admit. Joe simply got hit too easy. Tua is far more powerful than anything Joe faced bar Foreman. Joe will win, but only because of his insane conditioning and appetite for punishment. Joe Frazier was hit and hurt by every man he ever fought. Tua had power, and he put to sleep a lot of guys who were not regarded as chinny or soft. He would buckle Joe but he doesn't have the skills to finish it. Joe fights him to a stand-still and beats him down anytime after the 3rd or 4th.
Frazier wins because he is better. Miles better. Styles will only compensate for so much, and the gap here is fucking HUGE. Frazier and Tua are about six fucking levels apart from each other... MTF
:giggle: You're such a stupid cunt. If this was a matter of lacking objectivity I would BOOST Ali's greatest rivals not trash them. You idiot. If I say that Hatton was a GREAT fighter you'd say "to make Floyd look better"..if I say Hatton is a shit fighter you'd say "because he fought Floyd so that's why you're hating on him". It's is YOU that are the forum "shitcan".
what are you talking about? your agenda is to minimize Ali's two greatest rivals by making a litany of excuses in order to make their victories seem like meaningless results "In the 60s, he would have killed them!!!" that type of shit
no, because you constantly make the difference in Ali, pre and post exile, your standard point of view for all things Ali, claiming he would have easily beat Frazier... the Thomas Hauser school of nut worship
by making his toughest opponents seem like nothing, you can further boost your case of how faded Ali supposedly was
Dude, don't align with Broadwayjoe on this one. He's a shitcan (my new favourite word). Even IF I was making a case that Ali was rusty and would have beaten them easily in his prime (60s) it would still make sense for me to make them appear to be better than they actually were because I would say that even a faded Ali beat the GREAT Joe Frazier would no one today would have beaten. Think about it. Don't be the human shield for the forum shitcan. :giggle:
70s Ali basically is irrelevant if you are convinced that the 60s vintage was vastly superior... you can say, "see?? see how faded he was??? he would have killed those guys in 1967 shape..." which in turn can make those difficult fights seem unimportant anytime someone attempts to praise Frazier or Norton... In that context, it makes sense to denigrate the two men (something that the huge throng of Ali media support has already done a savage job of) ... Frazier today is portrayed as a skilless bum with the chin of a placekicker, which is news to the guys he kicked the snot out of, and is news to Ali himself "My right is ok, my left is ok, my back is fine. I just had too much fighter in the ring with me" -- Quarry, after the first fight with Frazier "When you die, I will be the champion" -- Bonavena, to Frazier, after their second fight
:giggle: Tyson would have annihilated Frazier, Bonavena and Quarry on the same night one after the other. Nice quotes though.
this has been discussed ad nauseum and about half of the forum (the half strangely most familiar with Frazier and boxing in general) disagreed with you I guess he would have annihlated Ali, too, seeing as how he was beaten by Frazier and sternly tested by Bonavena
I wouldn't go that far. Frazier had greater variety and an ability to keep the attack rolling for longer. Frazier could, at his best, come forward all night, almost seamlessly. Tua has that power and the mass to absorb some incoming but his lack of motion and his lack, essentially, of grit and desire is going to see him come off worse. Tua is an improvement on the fat, soft, inconvincing sorts like Buster Mathis Sr and Ron Stander, but he goes the same way eventually.
Mathis was a fancy boxer, meaningless comaprison Stander landed one decent shot and then got murdered
MAthis was fat and not very well conditioned. That was the only comparison I sought. The point is those fights went rounds, and its not inconceivable that Tua goes rounds too, doing a bit better earlier on, and certainly no worse, than Stander or Mathis.
