Will there ever be another Roy Jones Jr?

:: We can do this all day.

If Tommy was chinny, Toney was weight drained (as Roy conceded in the post fight interview)

The fact is, Duran and Hearns were MUCH better fighters than Hopkins and Toney were on the night Roy beat them.

Leonard is a lot smaller - but yes, if he was Roy's size, he does the same thing to Toney and Hopkins.

 

Leonard in his prime didn't care about getting hit...he himself admitted to it. He said he didn't worry about taking punches until after his second comeback.

Those who said Leonard faced better fighters in his prime are spot on. You face better guys, you're in for tougher nights.

 

Good Point

 

:giggle:

Leonard doesn't 12-0 Toney with a KD whether they are the same size or not. We have to disagree there homie. Hopkins with one hand? Nah mate!

Roy beats both Hearns and Duran (relative sizes) with more room to spare.

We wont agree here padna.

 

Toney was a fat nothing the night Jones fought him

 

Duran was a blown up little man filled with beer and sleepless nights the night Leonard fought him. We can do this all day and night.

 

not the first time, he wasn't

 

Leonard didn't beat him the first time.

 

yup, instead he gutted it out, fought his ass off and lost a close decision to an amazing fighter

Even the crabby, partied-out Duran Leonard faced the second time around was a better fighter than the sweating hog Jones was in there with

 

"They say I never fought nobody. I just made them look like nobody" - Roy Jones

Sadly...and this is what happens with fans all the time, if Jones had struggled with Toney and won a close bruising battle, certain fans would have elevated Toney's ability that night and say that Jones had guts and heart. However when a guy beats anyone easily...certain fans don't attribute that to that fighters' ability but rather find ways to denigrate his opponent. Toney was unbeaten going into that fight and previously had fought guys like Nunn, McCalum, Barkley etc. Anyone who could 12-0 such a fighter is something speciall. and NO ...Leonard wouldn't have 12-0 (with no competitive rounds) an unbeaten Toney. No way no how.

 

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First question at the 2:50 mark... Larry doesn't even bring it up, Roy does.

 

Toney was a fat shit that night, he shouldn't have even been in the ring. end of story

 

Probably because a peak Ray would have been in there trying to stop Toney (if he was the same size as Roy of course)

He'd have been hit back a little more, that's fair.

 

No. there will not. ever.

 

Na bruv, that's Kriss Akabusi

 

Juan Diaz is the most talented athlete of all time

 

:giggle:

You're just trying to appear wise with this post.

 

No

 

::

 

This is how I feel about RJJ also.
Awesome talent. Truly ridiculous.

However when 10% of his talent/ reflexes went, he lost 80% of his "boxing ability".
He didn't have the toughness/ resourcefulness, etc of somebody like Ali to fall back on.
He lacked that ability to find another way to win. He also did not have a great chin (i know some like to think otherwise), and lacked that burning desire to take on tough challenges.

So for me not as much a great "fighter" as a truly great talent.

 

To be clear....

Talent is really referring to "who beats who" in a head to head matchup when both at their best. That's what we're talking about here at the core. If you take "styles" into consideration...which is fair...then it's about who is more likely to beat more peers and more easily than the other.

So whether Roy, once he slowed down, wasn't that good anymore is irrelevant. If you take Batman's smarts and utility belt away from him, he's just a billionaire who knows a couple martial arts tricks. But that's irrelevant. batman is batman because of his resourcefulness and utility belt. The Roy we're talking about is the Roy with the speed, reflexes and power.

So..with that said, a prime Roy Jones is more talented than Leonard.

 

No, this board has taught me that talent is a modern innovation. Thats one reason Jack Dempsey couldnt beat Frank Bruno or Tony Tubbs ::

Thats why I wouldnt even dream of mentioning, oh, I dont know...Henry Armstrong, Ray Robinson, Ezz Charles, Willie Pep...because Jones was a once-in-the-history-of-the-sport boxer. Please.

This does pique my curiosity, though. I hear a lot about fighters as recent as the 50s and 60s who had primitive skills, now we're skirting with the idea they werent as talented as later generations, so it does make me curious...exactly how did these guys win anything in their lives? I guarantee if Roberto Duran was exactly Roberto Duran but fought in the days of Ross and Armstrong, he wouldnt garner HALF the praise he does. Ditto for Ray Leonard, and ditto for Roy Jones. Familiarity is the cornerstone of bias.

 

I don't regard Jones as all-that and then some. He was a great fighter when he had his hand-speed and his reflexes. Once they went, he was exposed as a technically inefficient guy with not much in the line of a 2nd game-plan.

He shouldn't be judged harshly, because physical talents are never to be apologized for, or singled out in a "yes, but...." context..

Truth of the matter is that the great 175lbrs of history would have taken out that version of Mike McCallum or Lou Del Valle.

Roy was a phenomenon but I'm not sure he hacks it in a 15 round era wheree he might have had to fight once very 6 or 7 weeks against hard-men who would be prepared to walk him down and butt, elbow, and club him on the inside.

Its a different era, we judge fighters by the norms of their respective eras.

 

Funny I see it being the opposite. Aside from a vew exceptions, with boxing fans the further back you go the more legendary and unbeatable the fighters tend to become. Now even if people tend to dismiss the 30s and before...certainly from the 40s to the 80s those guys and generally deemed unbeatable by any modern fighters...even guys like Jones, Mayweather and Pacquiao.

Both extremes are just as ludicrous.

 

Then there are the in-between-extremes, which have Rocky Marciano and Ali basically being undefeatable by anyone that came after them.


Bottom line is that people see what they want to see, and decide what they want to decide.

 

Theres plenty in both directions, I will certainly agree with that --- but as Irish touches on, put Jones in, say, the 40s and 50s, fighting in that LHW talent pool every two months with a 100-fight career and this thread simply DOES NOT HAPPEN.

 

Put Jones in the 50s at Middleweight and then at Lightheavyweight and Sugar Ray Robinson doesn't happen!

 

You're missing the point.

Imagine Ray Robinson was active today.

He's be so much better than he was back then.

Back then they had 15 round title fights vs teak-tough contenders, like Randy Turpin, then a 2 month turn-around, and a rematch.

Floyd has been getting away with things because he fights washed up guys or smaller guys once a year.

See how long Roy's reflexes last when he's fighting that often, and he's being cheated on the scales etc etc.