Duran vs Pacquiao at 147lbs

I'd say it's mainly because he'd beaten a HOF champion with 15 odd defences in unimaginably dominant fashion and because he hadn't lost a single round in his championship career, barely taking any serious punches. Meanwhile Corrales was swapping rounds and going punch for punch with guys like Garcia, Brown, Justin Jukko.

Corrales was a very good opponent, but it's honestly a stretch to equivaliate him to Hearns in any respect, even without hindsight.

 

Fair enough. Good point.

But the Corrales comparison is only to the extent that Diego was undefeated and the best possible challenge for him at the time.

 

Leonard had beaten Duran and Benitez by the time he fought Hearns. That wasn't the "early stages" of his career, that was close to the end of his first run as a WW.

Hatton and Corrales are in no way, shape or form comparable to Duran.. Hearns & Corrales, are you kidding?! The only thing that Floyd has over SRL comp-wise is that the guys he's fighting are typically much bigger than him. Take away day-before weigh-ins and Floyd would be MURDERING guys who are currently fighting at lightweight. But having said that, Leonard & Hearns beat all of the guys that Floyd's beaten at 147.

 

Duran had just dominated Carlos Palomino, another multi-defence HOF champion one fight removed from losing his title by split decision to Wilfred Benitez. He was a legit ranked welterweight contender. Probably ranked No1 contender.

Hatton had had one welterweight fight to essentially a fringe contender & arguably lost.

 

Yup, I have have very little criticism of Floyd from 130-135 he's a great fighter.

 

Dude.....at 147lbs...when he was a natural lightweight....he challenged De La Hoya at 154lbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! De La Hoya!!! The same de la hoya that proved he still had it with recent knockouts of Vargas and Mayorga (and a disputed loss to mosley). I mean he doesn't get any fucking credit for that? 140lbs chinny Cotto would have been a more formidable opponent? Walking Mummy Margarito? I mean come on!!!!!

 

you mean the context where we ignore quality of opposition

 

I've been very explicit about the context...which is the nonsense that Floyd has consistently ducked challenges..ie is not as brave as a Loenard or a Hagler.

 

Vargas was 5 years previous, mate. Oscar was a part time fighter with one legit win the last 4 years. Yeah he deserves plenty credit and he gets it but in the pantheon of boxing history this is not a hugely impressive win......clearing out welterweight by beating the 3 prime, proven fighters he had right in front of him would have been more impressive in my book. But it's a nice win.

 

The record of who he has and hasn't fought and when since he left lightweight is there in black and white mate. Whether that failure was down to cowardice or not doesn't really matter, IMO....it is what it is.

 

the context is bullshit

I've not personally seen a more dominant light heavyweight champion than Bob Foster... he didn't just win, he didn't just defend his titles... he annihlated his opponents... if we ignore quality of opposition, you could make a case for him at #1 or #2 all time... or if we use YOUR method we could also make that same case

Who was Foster's best opponent outside of Dick Tiger? Probably Pierre Fourie

Mike Spinks was pretty dominant as well, not quite as consistently "oh my god" as Foster but a commanding champion nonetheless... the difference is in their opponents... Spinks best opponent was Dwight Qawi or Eddie Mustafa Muhammad... using YOUR method, we could say "Pierre Fourie = Eddie Mustafa Muhammad" ... Frankly, that is ridiculous... you are so concerned about not penalizing a fighter for the guys around him that you are neglecting to REWARD the guy who proved himself against exceptional opposition

There is no scenario in which Floyd Mayweather has a resume that compares with Ray Leonard... NONE

 

He had fucking retired by the time Cotto was relevant at Welterweight and he chose De La Hoya over Margarito...and even YOU can't pretend that face first margarito at 147lbs was a more formidable opponet than Oscar De La Hoya at 154lbs.

This is bullshit mate.

 

Mayweather 5-5-2007


Mayorga 5-6-2006


Vargas 9-14-2002


Care to revise this statement?


In between he lost to Mosley again...had a dubious win over Sturm and was KO'd by Hopkins.

Spectacular run leading up to the Mayweather fight.

 

So.......Magarito at 147lbs was a more formidable challenge than de La Hoya at 154lbs was? Is that what your position is?

Give me your position. Don't sit on the fence.

 

There's a reason Floyd took $1 more to fight Baldomir than Margarito.

 

Convenient ducking of my question. This alone proves my point.

Baldomir was THE CHAMPION...Margarito was a mere WBO titlist. I mean...you think Leonard, Robinson or any of those other historical shrewd businessmen would have done any differently?

Let's see: fight the champion or fight some unknown titlist. Hmmmm

Perhaps Joe Louis should have fought Buddy Baer first before facing Braddock.

 

Yeah....'retired'.

And just so we get the chronology right, Cotto had already beaten Judah and Mosley by the time Floyd 'retired' for the first time. When Cotto and Mosley were fighting each other Floyd was fighting Hatton at welterweight....for some reason.....four months before that, Margarito & Paul Williams fought to a split decision.

Then he 'retired' (staying in training the whole time), side stepping ALL those pressing questions, watched all those guys beat each other up or move up in weight and came back and fought Juan Manual Marquez.....for some reason.

For the record, since you asked, I think Margarito would have been about as formidable an opponent as the Oscar Floyd fought, yes (As would Williams, Cotto & Mosley). If he'd fought at least 3 or 4 of those welterweights as he could and should have he'd have cleared out a division, leaving no untied strings and that sure as hell would have been more impressive than what he did.

The point is though that it wasn't either or. He could have fought any of those guys instead of Baldomir or Hatton which were both questions nobody was asking....and he definitely could have fought at least one of them instead of his phoney 'retirement'. He fought none of the relevant welterweight contenders fighting at the time he moved up to the division and there were LOADS.

 

Let me ask you this...besides Floyd...what boxing did you watch? We know Jones was off your list after the Tarver fights.

Perhaps I'm wrong here...how legendary was Baldomir's career prior to beating Judah? How many titles had he won?

Baldomir won and lost his title within 10 months.

Margarito had been a champion since 2001 and yet you dubbed him as "unknown titlist."

Seriously, you can do better. Wait, no you can't.

 

...

 

Hmm...let's see...

Floyd retired in 2007/05/05 after beating Oscar.

Cotto beat Judah 2007/06/09 and Mosley 2007/11/10

So...I could be wrong...but I thought that June and November came after May. Of course my East London education could be lacking....

 

Baldomir was CHAMPION. End of story. Wehther he was a shit champion or not is irrelevant.

Buster Douglas had won and lost the title also within 10 months. Should Evander have fought Razor Ruddock instead?

 

He fought Hatton 7 months later.

 

This answers my question. All eyes were on Floyd not the rest of the boxing world.

There's no other explanation for knowing a journeyman fighter (baldomir) vs not knowing a guy who was champion for five years. To add to this...Margarito was constantly referred to as the most avoided fighter in boxing at the time.

I'd ask if it were true but you wouldn't know the answer. :atu:

 

WTF are you talking about? Floyd and Hatton fought in December 2007. If there were a time to fight Cotto that was it. Floyd opted to RETIRE.

Mosley and Cotto fought the month before Mayweather-Hatton. Are you high?

So yes, your East London education and memory are badly failing you.

 

To refresh Sly's memory

 

So?

Hatton knocked out Castillo (who is generally perceived to have give Mayweather his toughest struggles to date), took the Mic and said in his annoying geordie accent:

"I think we've seen more action in these 4 rounds than Floyd Mayweather has given us value for money in his entire career".

Hatton was a top 5 P4P guy, getting higher accolades daily and he essentially called Floyd out. It was considered a one off fight for Floyd...a brief interruption of his voluntary retirement...an exception to the status quo.

Regardless of the stupid spin we get these days... undefeated P4Pder Hatton was a bigger fight for Floyd than either Cotto or Margarito in any event.

 

Floyd was already retired. Came OUT OF RETIREMENT to fight Hatton and went back into retirement.

With respect to Cotto the post Hatton retirement is irrelevant..the Cinco de Mayo retirement is relevant.

 

'So?'

So he hadn't retired in May.

 

Why is a real (phoney) retirement where he actually stopped fighting irrelevant but a pretend (phoney) retirement which didn't even happen relevant?

 

Was castillo the same fighter at 147 that he'd previously been? No.

That's not the point. The point you're ducking is floyd had no excuse than to fight Cotto or Margarito after that "great" Hatton win. He opted to retire.

The whole "Floyd couldn't have fought Cotto" angle is a fallacy.