Juan Manuel Marquez vs Barry McGuigan

Nah......

I fully understood what Hut was saying. I haven't disagreed withhim o nthat either. Hut was syaing, in effect, that old man hopkins wouldn't have had a lightheavyweight career. this I agree with. I'm saying that this is irrelevant to be honest...because when talking of his ability as a champion re the best fighters of the 80s we're talking about the division in which he made his name in his prime and that was at middleweight.

ya cunt.

 

Yes. Hopkins of right now in the Spinks/Qawi Light-heavy era would be good enough to beat journeymen and fringe contenders and be troublesome to up and comers, but not nearly good enough to beat the best fighters in the division.

 

Well old man Hopkins at Lightheavyweight isn't as good as the greats in that division. I don't recall saying otherwise. He'd give most some trouble though.

 

I considered Middleweight, but I think Light-heavy was probably more likely for him. And frankly..I don't get too involved in P4P debate....but I don't know if Calzaghe cracks the top Ten in too many years during the 80's, mostly because I don't see him where he wins a title during the first half of the decade. Maybe later in the decade when Spinks and Qawi had moved out of Light-Heavy and Hagler lost to Leonard and the title ended up being split up.

 

I tend to view 168lbers as middleweights that are enjoying the luxury of not having to lose the extra few pounds...than as Lightheavyweights who choose to lose 7 pounds.

 

Same here. Benn, Watson, Eubanks, Graham etc were all middleweights really who decided not to bother boiling down to 160 any more.

MTF

 

Those guys, sure...but Calzaghe never fought at Middle and fought plenty of fights around 170 lbs before winning a title at 168.

A lot of Super Middles were former Middles who moved up...but that isn't what Calzaghe did. He fought above 160 for his entire career.

 

um, no

the above is at odds completely with your "Bernard easily hangs with FOster, Charles, Moore, Spinks" nonsense

 

agREED. Sorry Sly....but you have picked these fighters to just edge out Hopkins at 175.

 

Yes...but I picked them to win. What's your point?

 

My point is that you inflate this old version of Hopkins to the point where you want folks to think the best 175 lbs fighters of all time would barely get past him. Don't get me wrong...it is impressive that Hopkins has managed to remain relevant at this advanced age, but I haven't see anything of him at 175 to think he would seriously push the best ever at this weight.

 

ok....but why go to the other extreme and suggest that the greats would obliterrate him with ease? That's just ridiculous.

 

Sorry....but that is far more likely than your take. Do I see 1st round KOs...probably not. But I don't see anything out of Hopkins these days think the fights would be competitive.

 

So to make sure I understand you:

You think that these fighters obliterrating Hopkins with ease is far more likely than them beating Hopkins but him making it competitive?

 

What I am saying is the fights pitting Hopkins against the best 175 fighters during their title reigns are much more likely to be one-sided rather than chess matches in which they barely scrape past Hopkins by a close decision. And like I said...I don't think there is any first round KOs here...but I don't see Hopkins winning many rounds either. The best I see him doing is fighting ugly and trying to go rounds.

Somehow you have been blinded by his fights with Tarver and Pascal

 

I haven't been blinded by anything. Hopkins has proven a good chin, good stamina, ring generalship, adaptablity, ability to box or slug, cheating tricks of necessary. He's shown it all. Plus he's not a tiny lighheavyweight either. Such a guy gets dominated by no one.

 

I was referring to sly's general position, which I agree with. I agree, though, that Calzaghe doesn't really fit with 'the norm' here.

MTF

 

Yep. Calzaghe doesn't fit into the examples that Sly gave.