Whos Greater Historically?

Hagler, or Pacquiao?

I say Pacman clearly.

 

i don't understand.

 

He means who should be rated higher Jimmy, in an all time great list.

 

Whos the greater fighter?

 

Pacman without a shadow of a doubt.

Of course I only say this because of my Mayweather agenda....I know somehow it's connected....but othe reasons for this could be that Pac has beaten champions from Flyweight to Jnr Middle.

 

pac would find it tough in there with mr hagler

 

I think pretty much anyone would, especially a much smaller man.

 

This is not an in-ring comparison, though.

 

Hagler is. Hagler could have contended with any 160lb champ in history.

As for Pacquaio.....what is he??? What is he??? A flyweight? A bantamweight??? :dunno:


We know about Hagler. We don't know about Pacquaio.

 

Haglers first vote garnered.

 

Yeah, Pacquiao is pretty unproven. I want to see him fight a world class fighter or a champion before we start singing his praises etc.

 

Exactly how many 5 foot 6 flyweights has Hagler beaten?

 

'Word'.

Hagler's a better middleweight than Pac was a featherwight...or lightweight....or welterweight.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingaan_Thobela

 

You could make a case for either guy... Hut's post is a hugely important point that seems to be missing from everyone's knee-jerk "PACQUAIO!" response

 

you can also go back to the real old days and find JImmy McClarnin and Georges Carpentier... McClarnin was a world class (for the time) flyweight and a world class welterweight

Carpentier fought from lightweight to heavyweight

 

The thing is, I disagree. I've always liked Hagler a LOT, I love his southpaw boxer puncher style, his iron chin, good power, and good all round skills. I also like the way he looks ::

I hate it when people act like he's a brawler (similar to Tyson actually).

But I would pick the featherweight Pacquiao to beat Hagler, P4P.

Also Hut's post kind of dismisses the importance of Pacquiao's insane transcending of weight classes. It's something I think carries a lot of weight.

Even if it's proven Pacquiao IS on PEDS - if it's that easy, just take some PEDS and you can start slapping guys around 4 weight classes bigger, why aren't more people doing it? Would be a pretty easy way to earn a fuck load of money and fame.

 

What he did is impressive, but not really comparable. Glen Catley != Ricky Hatton or Miguel Cotto.

 

I still think the statement "Marvin Hagler was a better middleweight than Manny Pacquiao was a 122/126/130/135/140/147 pounder" is spot on

 

Carpentier is a better example, what an amazing little dude.

But again, the fact that we're only able to name a couple of guys says it all, what Pacquiao did is absolutely exceptional.

 

Definitely a better champion, no doubt.

 

Is it missing, or do some of us just disagree with it?

 

agreed, but it doesn't necessarily mean he's better than a guy who dominates one division for years

I mean, is Georges Carpentier "greater" than Bob Foster or Marvin Hagler? I don't think he is at all

 

I think it's greatly undervalued

 

Post-car accident Spazienza moved up 19 lbs to gain a 154 lb. title. He moved up another 14 to fight a prime Roy Jones

Billy Conn lost to some LW's but then won the undisputed LHW title, also got into the ring with Joe Louis twice

 

That could go both ways, though. Just dominating one division doesnt necessarily make you better than becoming the champ in four or five classes and constantly moving up with virtually unheard of measures of success...and in this instance, I dont think it does.

 

Like I said, you could make a case for either man, I just don't see it as an open-and-shut, no doubt about it case

Manny's comp from 122-130 is a hell of a lot more impressive to me than the guys he's fought above 140... yeah it's terrific for a naturally small man to do what he's done, even with a ho-hum group of guys, but I am still more impressed with a guy knocking out Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barrera than I am with him beating older, slower guys who have all been soundly beaten before he was ever in with them

 

So do I. And if Pacquiao and Hagler were the same I'd pick Marvin. Think he's probably a better fighter.

But Pacquiao has just accomplished more. His resume is obnoxious.

 

I think once you go beyond 130, the gulf in class between the opponents Marvin faced over his 14-15 years at 160 and the ones Manny has faced is fucking vast... that has to count

 

Okay. By whom?