I think it's more than that... Hagler was better at close quarters with his head movement, his positioning and shortening his punches... he did all of that flat out better than Marquez
I'm with Ramone on this one. Pac's a greater, more accomplished fighter than Hagler. Not terribly debatable in my books. You guys are still my dawgs though.
Exactly I'm no pac fan, but he's clearly a greater fighter than Hagler. Pacs run was/ is simply incredible At MW, Hagler wastes him tough
In term of fighting ability, I agree that Hagler is comparable or even better than Pac. Still, while his resume is very solid, I don 't thimnk it's nearly as good as Pacquiao
I'm with Ramonza, MWS and co that Pacquiao is definitely a greater fighter than Hagler. In all honesty I think that's beyond question now, hindsight is nice and all but even if you picked him to beat a few of the guys after Oscar lets not pretend you were predicting results like KO 2 Hatton. No one did. Sometimes it's not the guy you're beating but the way you're beating them. However in a straight up fight between the two at 160, Hagler wins comfortably, mid rounds.
x2 Pac's run at 122-130 is the stuff of legend, I was a big fan of his back then. Post 130 is largely crap.
I'm in the midst of arguing against about 5 people on this very topic, LOL From 122-130, Pac is a force of nature... he's elite, all-time level
It's not "revisionist" because I called all of the fights with the exception of the Cotto one as being crap/easy wins for Pacquiao before they actually happened.
You guys are fucking mental. Manny is/was a featherweight/superfeatherweight. He wastes Barerra, straight after MAB hands a beatdown to Hamed, another ATG at that weight. He comes back from a L to El Terrible, then hands him a severe beatdown. Then he bounces JMM, another fucking excellent fighter, like a tennis ball. He is an established great at 126/130. Out of absolutely nowhere, he moves up a division and smashed Diaz. Okay, he is average, so no big deal. Then he beats Oscar like he stole something,. Yes Oscar is shot to fuck, but Pac was a massive dog in that fight- about TWO people on these boards thought he'd win and most (me included) called the fight a total fucking sham and a mismatch. It was, but not in the way most expected. He then near kills Hatton, the consensus, unified champ at a weight he has not lost at in near fifty fights. He brutalises Cotto and Cheato, the consensus top two guys at 147 after Floyd retires, again, to avoid fighting them. He toys with Mosely. He batters Clottey. These are guys that, five years ago, would be 10-1 on favourites to DEMOLISH Pac. You think MAB or Morales or Hamed would be them? Not a chance. Yet Pac demolishes them. But suddenly they are shite and his wins are devalued? Revisionist balls. MTF
Again, Im not sure that having a body type/late devlopment/style suited to moving up weights should be a sign of greatness. When Dinagaan Thobela was at lightweight what would the odds of him being a champ at 168 be? 1000-1?
Of course this, but since suppliers are ahead of tests and in boxing they don't even take tests, then why would Pac be the only guy taking PEDs, wouldn't you think that they all use?
I don't have an opinion on the roids issue, but its just worth remembering that a world class boxer putting on 10lb of muscle with all the dieticians and training expertise they can afford isn't compelling evidence of steroid abuse. These are guys who've been training to keep their weight down for most their adult life and most of them don't touch weights until they want to bulk up.
I had suspicions after the 2nd Morales fight, but what really made it clear that Pac is on some shit is how he and his team handled the testing issue during the Mayweather fight negotiations. That was truly comical/absurd..
It's what he has done at the higher weights though mate. He hasn't nipped up a division or two and pinched a belt here or there against some weak champions. He's brutalised every possible contender. A few years ago people were banging on about how good 147 was as a division, with Cotto, cheat, Shane etc etc. Manny hasn't gone up and ran his way to a few decision wins. He's beaten the snot out of these guys. MTF
Hagler struggled with that mediocre, lightpunching, tiny bleeder called Antuofermo. Sure he was robbed of victory in the first fight and subsequently stopped him...but he shouldn't have allowed that fuck to go the distance in the first place. So...Hagler would KILL pac seems a little silly.
Antufermo was no world class talent but he was a tough son of a bitch. He was also bigger than Manny.
Antuofermo was strong and difficult and the undisputed middleweight champion of the world... I think he'd maul Pac and wear him out... you underrate him (surprise, surprise) Hagler would fucking murder Pacquaio, Pac wouldn't win 10 seconds of such a fight
