Chavez Jr.-Manfredo Jr. card

I thought the Calzaghe stoppage was bullshit as was the reasoning. For what was offered, you then had to ask why the fight was even made in the first place.

Didn't think tonight's stoppage was unjust, and it was a matter of time before Julio finished him off anyway

 

Even the Username "Dog Jones" was DERIVED from a QWERTYism....



REED:bow:

 

the way boxing is goind, soon enough, the fight will be stopped as soon as one of the fighter is hit cleanly, in fact, in already happend in Mathysse-Harris, it just will be the norm and most people will stil defend them and claim that it's better to err on the side of caution

 

Tonight, MMA had 2 great wars in Chandler-Alavarez and Shogun-Henderson were both guy's were on the brink of being koed ( ok, maybe not henderson ) yet were given the benefit of the doubt by the ref because that's what they should do with fighters of this level. But If it was a Nady or a Cole who'd ref those fights we just have another contreversial stoppages discussion just like we keep having in boxing recently ( Alvarado-Precott ( and yes, I know I'm in the minority on this one), Fury-Nedvajick, Gomez-Canelo, Manfredo-Chavez Jr. and so on )

 

You are right about tonights MMA event...but I thought Cung Le got stopped early and it does happen alot in MMA.

 

he wasnt avoiding much at all. i agree it was early on the basis of he was able to clinch at the time. he was never going ro win the fight regardless

 

Its not the ref's job to figure out what will happen, "anyways."

 

It's Neven Pajkic, get it right.

 

I wanna meet Karl.

 

It's only been two weeks since Angulo/Kirkland.

 

Also, MMA sucks.

 

great example , can't believe I forgot it. Most people would have been fine with a first round stoppage win for Angulo but the ref let Kirkland the benefit of the doubt and we had a great fight as a result. Just imagine how crushing another 1st round ko loss would have been to Kirkland and it could very well have happened with a quick trigger ref.

 

I think I posted this before as I've followed Peter since his first Providence fights. His MO is not letting his hands go....he got caught this one which is unusual. Usually the Calzaghe thing happens where Peter does not answer , and Petter is not a holder..although he fights inside. Truthfully he is a clubfighter. Even Vinny Paz from Providence did much more as the local hero in Providence. GS

 

Only good fighters get their names spelled correctly. Baker and Paycheck need to run up big wins before they get any respect at all. :nono:

 

Well like I said, the stoppage was fine. Manfredo was legitimately stunned, and then twice rocked while Chavez threw a ton of unanswered punches. If his faculties were in order, then throw back, take a knee or clinch. He tried the latter, but waited too late to do so.

I have a lot of problems with Laurence Cole, but his decision to stop last night's fight isn't one of them.

 

It should be illegal to even mention MMA outside of that forum

 

My prediction was pretty accurate (tko 8, chavez), altho I didn't expect chavez jr to win that early or win with the relative ease from what sounds like a relatively easy victory...

 

He's not required to throw punches back. And he's not required to clinch. He's simply required to defend himself, which is what he did by moving his head and slipping 90% of the punches Chavez was throwing.

What I object to, and what you've offered as justification for his being stopped, is that he was stunned. The fact he was stunned is far from being grounds for stopping the fight.

And you hinted that the stoppage is fine because Manfredo would've lost anyway. When you consider Kirkland/Angulo, you don't need me to point out why that's problematic.

Thing is, fighters are almost never seriously hurt by knock-out sequences or even instances in which one fighter's been hurt by a particular punch or barrage of punches. We all know that it's sustained punishment over the course of many rounds that is most dangerous.

Unfortunately, this means that referees are rarely in a position to save fighters who succumb to such injury, because there's no obvious grounds for stopping the fight. And so something should be worked out to address this.

However, what doesn't address this, and what can't be expected to address this, and what hurts the sport, is when referees stop fights early in some preemptive attempt to spare fighters from getting hurt.

 

it was a good stoppage. IF anything Roach has gotten Chavez jr. in pretty good shape.

He seem lean, muscular and had decent stamina. Not to mention was pretty agressive.

Manfredo to me got stopped just like he did against Calzague because he froze and never ansewered any punches.

Against CAlzaque it was too quick a stoppage but against Jr. he took some punishment for a few rounds and was getting beat up.

Manfredo also looked soft in the body like he wasn't properly trained.

 

When did Roach start training the big goofy retard?

 

This statement along makes the rest of your post irrelevant.

Bull-f'n-shit he's not required to throw punches back. And he did not slip 90% of the punches - that's just ridiculous to suggest. Chavez missed more than he landed in that sequence, but landed quite a bit.

I finally watched the replay, thinking there was something I missed since that part took place on the opposite side of the ring from where we were seated. I counted 49 unanswered punches from Chavez. FORTY-NINE!

If a fighter is that worried about not getting a fair shake on the cards in an arena where he believes his opponent is the house fighter, not throwing punches for that long of a stretch is no way to convince the ref or anyone else that you're interested in continuing.

It's funny - Max claimed that Cole had a Texas agenda and was dying for the first chance to jump in and stop the fight. What I got out of it was that Max believed all along for that to be the case and jumped at the first chance to suggest any truth to it.

Like I said, I take great issue with Cole as a ref in any big fight. But if anything, he was overly cordial w/ Peter. He joked with him and his corner while loose tape was being tended to, and let him off the hook with a friendly back (or shoulder) slap after Manfredo drilled Chavez after the bell in that same round.

Had the fight stopped the moment Manfredo was rocked, I'd get in Cole's shit about it. Had he done so after the first time he staggered into the ropes, I'd question the call.

But after 49 unanswered punches and Manfredo staggering his way to a clinch when the fight was stopped? Time for everyone to give it a rest already.

 

The Duddy fight was their first together. Roach joined him very late in camp, and they've worked together ever since (though not always to Freddie's liking). this was the first camp, though, where Chavez showed up to camp in shape truly ready to train/fight and to where all parties were satisfied

 

And for those who keep referencing Kirkland/Angulo - the punch that dropped Kirkland was the first decent shot Angulo landed, and it came early in the fight.

Kirkland was rocked and badly hurt afterward, but was still punching back. The criticism was that he didn't clinch and was in danger of getting caught with something that would end the fight, but the big difference was that he fought back.

But since that fight gets mentioned - a better example of a quick stoppage came in the preceding fight, when Qullin was denied the chance of a spectacular ending when the ref stopped the fight the first time McEwan's head snapped back. Worse, McEwan was actually in position to fight back when it was stopped

 

I would like to point out that I didn't mention Kirkland/Angulo in that context

 

I know, was saying it in general and beyond this forum. Was mentioned at ringside, too.

 

Even I can't complain it was a bad stoppage. Peter didn't fight back. End of story. I don't think he was totally out of it, but he didn't give the ref a reason to let him go on. He made the same mistake against Calzaghe (which was still most definitely a crap stoppage) - being more concerned with avoiding the incoming rather than trying to clinch or fight his way out.

 

Thanks for the info Jake, I was kind of curious to see if Chavez's performance against Manfredo lent any weight to the whole "All Roach fighters are on PEDs" thing.

But the fact is, he looked pretty crap against Zbik, and although I wasn't paying THAT much attention, it looked like Zbik won.

 

I don't know. It seems like if a fighter's hurt, the last thing he wants to do is throw back, and open himself up to a big shot.

Obviously, Manfredo should've grabbed earlier than he did. But he was actively defending throughout most of the barrage, moving his head. I don't see how anyone can stop the fight in that situation unless they're simply acting on emotion.

 

The Calzaghe fight was a terrible stoppage, and I thought Max was a dick in the way he countered Peter's response when it was brought up. Max had it backwards.

Pete's a class act. Wish he could've made more of his career, but he squeezed out every last drop, and ends his career with a decent six-figure payday. Respects the sport, and those around him. Personality-wise, wish boxing had more like him.

 

manfredo may be a nice guy, but he isnt the level of fighter that should ever be on homeboys only. even as a b side. now that chavez jr. has thoroughly dominated that level of foe viewers should never be subjected to anything similar. we shall see how the new regime deals with him and alvarez as far as matchmaking is concerned in 2012